We’ve known for years that starting school at 08.00 is detrimental to school-aged children and teenagers, but we keep doing it.
We’ve known for years that WFH can be just as productive and even more so than RTO, but we keep doing it.
We’ve known for ages that housing homeless people helps them and society much better than criminalizing them, but we keep doing it.
We’ve known for ages that repressive stances on drugs are counterproductive, but we keep doing it.
We’ve known for ages that a 4-day workweek results in gains for everyone, including the owner class themselves, yet we keep on doing 5.
I’m starting to think that gaining knowledge and insight is completely useless if the results are never taken into account if they don’t fit the currently reigning narrative.
Humans are a deeply flawed species. That alone is bad enough, but we KNOW we are, we KNOW how to solve at least some of it, yet we simply refuse.
All those points are always resisted by Conservatives / Regressives… They are fucking wrong about every solution to every problem we face since the dawn of time.
They are resisted because they threaten the status quo of the oligarchs and the useful idiots they are able to convince. In my country, they mostly do it by doing barbecues, concerts during the campaign, giving people in the countryside buckets, umbrellas a bag of rice and bottle of oil, and lots of TV and TikTok propaganda. In the US, religion seems to plays a much bigger role.
We’ve known for years that starting school at 08.00 is detrimental to school-aged children and teenagers, but we keep doing it.
But work is 9-5 9-6, can’t have flexible hours. Everyone knows a busy employee is less likely to get weird ideas like unionizing.
We’ve known for years that WFH can be just as productive and even more so than RTO, but we keep doing it.
But you can’t control and micromanage the slave employee if they aren’t physically present at work. And also, we need to keep the employee busy on the 1-2hr commute, see above point.
We’ve known for ages that housing homeless people helps them and society much better than criminalizing them, but we keep doing it.
You mean the poor landlords lose the bread from their mouth and not get paid rent?
We’ve known for ages that repressive stances on drugs are counterproductive, but we keep doing it.
Stealing the bread of our poor military complex and police forces? Can’t have that.
We’ve known for ages that a 4-day workweek results in gains for everyone, including the owner class themselves, yet we keep on doing 5.
See point #1
My point is that it’s literally a class war between the oligarchs in power and the rest of us.
Have you considered that those things aren’t done not because of stupidity but because a small subset of society that holds most of the political power and media benefits from those things being done?
The system isn’t flawed in the sense that it doesn’t work. It does. Extremely well. It just doesn’t work for you and me or to make everyone’s lives better.
Yeah imagine bees saying we KNOW smoking us and removing our honey leads to disorder and pointless work, so why do we keep doing it?
A little glib I admit, but I agree. There are a minority of people holding us back, and not enough political capital, or incentive, to make the necessary changes.
I don’t know if that analogy fully works. Bees get safety, they get a maintained home, as a colony they get healthcare from pests and similar, they get security when things get rough
Yes, they do more work, but the beekeeper also cares for them, and ensures their survival to a greater degree
Not to mention, they’re not caged, they’re free to leave
Yeah, if bees are stressed by their hive location, they move. Bees will just leave honey farms if they have some sort of detrimental effect that out weights the benefits of the hive location.
We’ve known for years that starting school at 08.00 is detrimental to school-aged children and teenagers, but we keep doing it.
Yeah, but we also know school is more about free childcare that allows both parents to go to work than it is about actual education.
We’ve known for years that WFH can be just as productive and even more so than RTO, but we keep doing it.
We also know that a large part of the real estate market is dependent on leasing office space.
We’ve known for ages that housing homeless people helps them and society much better than criminalizing them, but we keep doing it
Again, creating more homes drives down property value.
We’ve known for ages that repressive stances on drugs are counterproductive, but we keep doing it.
It also creates jobs for police officers, income for private prisons, and strips minorities of their rights.
We’ve known for ages that a 4-day workweek results in gains for everyone, including the owner class themselves, yet we keep on doing 5.
This is once again an issue with the real estate market. Cutting the work week also cuts into profits of companies dependent on demand made from people commuting to and from work.
starting to think that gaining knowledge and insight is completely useless if the results are never taken into account if they don’t fit the currently reigning narrative.
It’s not that we don’t take account of the results, it’s just that the results do not benefit the nonsensical economic system we’ve adapted to. Our system does not create value from the things we have, it creates value from the things we withold.
Be prepared to be assassinated by a jr level manager from Black Rock. Keep your head on a swivel. Bryce played lacrosse for Princeton, he don’t miss son.
Taking a page from the Singapore HDB, housing can be sold/bought by the state, and prices are set by what the applicant can afford, rather than what the market is willing to pay. This allows residents to move to different locations, or change dwelling size to fit their currents needs (marriage, children, empty nesters, divorce, etc.).
I imagine this can work in a multi-city state, too… just need to make sure there is ample supply to allow for migrations without waiting lists.
Unlike rent control on rentals from a private market, price control for a majority public housing system can work, as a black market is hard to establish.
We’ve known for ages that paying for social services, healthcare and unemployment benefits increase the amount of spendable income the working class has and that this directly benefits the real economy while more income to top earners only means that that money is lost to the economy.
Most of the problems the US is facing could be fixed, or at least alleviated with social democratic programs. Better economy, better education, less crime, less partisanship, less drug abuse, less violence, less stress, less fear, better mental health, better physical health, less homelessness, more gender equality, more racial equality, more job security, better wages, better lifestyle, more happiness, less religion, etc. etc.
After my generation dies you might be able to move forward in some of those fronts.
I will say, about the school times, that the biggest issue is the parent schedules, not the kids. Shifting times makes it much harder on parents, unless you also push tradwife-ish values: one parent must give up their career to care for the kids. It’s a sticky topic without an easy solution.
Edit the responses about the school times illustrate my point. I’m not saying there’s no solution; I’m saying there’s no easy solution that isn’t contentious.
I think old fossils had a huge impact on the outcome of the election, with a lot of backing by rich individuals and business interests that are unrelated to wealth.
Kamala was relatively young, but look at the rest of Congress and the leadership at the state level. The average age of all state leadership, including governors, and Senate & House speakers, is 58. The average age of all state governors alone is 68.
I used to believe the first line in your comment but the new generation is swinging further right than their parents (mostly male). So now I’m not so sure
You might be right; I don’t interact with a lot of Z. If so, maybe it’s a good thing we’re on the path to an ecological catastrophe and another, this time man-made, global extinction event.
What he was saying is that we can discover all the new things we want, but the people who have respected and established careers who don’t believe the new science tend to block/slow down it’s acceptance and further application until they die, then science advances…
I think that’s all of society, not just science though…
I will say, about the school times, that the biggest issue is the parent schedules, not the kids.
I call bullshit on this. Most school districts have high-schoolers starting at 7:30, middle-shoolers at 8, and elementary at 8:30, or something like that.
Yet, elementary aged kids are naturally up by 6 (if the parents are lucky; often earlier), and are also the biggest contingent that gets driven (instead of bussed) to school. A working parent can drive to their kid’s school and be on time for work without much issue early in the day, not so much at rush hour. And they are be up with their kids bright and early anyhow.
High-schoolers are the ones that need the most night sleep of the bunch, and with the latest sleep cycle. They are also the most independent. It’s not an issue to leave a high-schooler at home and go to work while they bus/drive/bike themselves to school later.
In short, both parents and kids schedules benefit from a reversal of the timetables, but we don’t do it for $REASONS.
outside of Elementary (kindergarden mostly) schools and suburbia there isn’t really a reason parents are needed for children to catch a bus/ walk a few miles to school.
You’re describing, like, 50% of the population of children in US. But ignoring that, there are other, valid reasons people don’t want to go off to work and leave their kids to catch a bus in a couple of hours. Even with buses, it’s not uncommon to see parents standing with their kids at the bus stop. In Minnesota in the winter, where it can sometimes reach -45°C in the winter, you don’t let your kid walk 4 blocks to stand for 20 minutes waiting for a bus that might be 20 minutes late because of snow. Frostbite of a very real risk in a lot of the world.
I’ve gone to a bus stop in -40° weather before (northern Alaska), frostbite isn’t that much of a concern if you have good enough clothing (children should not be sent out in fabrics that lose all insulating properties when wet spend the extra if they are going out in even -20°C regularly) handwarmers do exist for gloves if the child has learned how not to burn themselves (and when burns are preferable to freezing) and they get their gloves wet.
it would be nice if school buses had trackers so kids could know how delayed they currently are (or if the route is canceled because the bus drove off the road again).
When one of us works from home, we can do both. We’re productive enough from home that the extra time missed while walking them to school or waiting at the bus stop with them is more than made up for, especially when we save commute time and money.
That’s great for white collar workers. It’s a bit of an entitled perspective, though; there are many people in the US who aren’t privileged enough to be able to do their jobs through Zoom.
You can either adjust your sleep patterns to get the same amount of evening fun time, have fun in the morning, or organize and force the bourgeoisie to give you shorter workdays.
You have the understand that your culture is not predicated on logic, reason, or the scientific method. Its designed to feed the capitalist machine and perpetually increase productivity. That’s the only real outcome measure.
Starting school late will make it difficult for parents to get their kids to the bus stop / school on their way to work. We can’t disrupt the productivity of the parents - that’s the priority.
WFH decreases the control your employer has over you and also diminishes the value of their real estate. Will someone please think of the capitalists?
Housing homeless people is socialist. We musn’t disincentivize productive behavior!
Drugs and all “crime” must be allowed to happen and then stamped out by force. Only then can we use fear to control populations and define an outgroup that becomes our baseline for dehumanization.
All of this is by design in Western and many other modern cultures. It was never really a question of knowing better.
It’s not that we refuse, we just can’t help but put stupid arrogant people in charge of everything. They don’t listen to science, just themselves, so nothing changes.
As a species, we’ve basically been doing this forever. Or at least since Machiavelli wrote the Prince, which is literally what’s happening everywhere now.
Simply put, those with intelligence know enough to realize what they don’t know. So they won’t make claims they can’t pursue. Politically, this will always work against them, and in favor of any loud idiot that promises everything, but can’t deliver. People will always pick the loud idiot, because the loud idiot will promise more than the intelligent option could ever reasonably accomplish.
The secret to solving this is simply transparency, and regulation.
That is: don’t let stupid leaders be stupid behind closed doors. Bring it into the open for scrutiny by professionals. Don’t let stupid people hold positions of authority by placing requirements for those positions to be held. Military service, or public service requirements work, but so do simple tests that could prevent hostile idiots from holding positions of power they will guarantee abuse.
There’s more solutions provided in the Prince as well.
So this problem certainly isn’t a new one.
We’ve known for years that starting school at 08.00 is detrimental to school-aged children and teenagers, but we keep doing it.
We’ve known for years that WFH can be just as productive and even more so than RTO, but we keep doing it.
We’ve known for ages that housing homeless people helps them and society much better than criminalizing them, but we keep doing it.
We’ve known for ages that repressive stances on drugs are counterproductive, but we keep doing it.
We’ve known for ages that a 4-day workweek results in gains for everyone, including the owner class themselves, yet we keep on doing 5.
I’m starting to think that gaining knowledge and insight is completely useless if the results are never taken into account if they don’t fit the currently reigning narrative.
Humans are a deeply flawed species. That alone is bad enough, but we KNOW we are, we KNOW how to solve at least some of it, yet we simply refuse.
All those points are always resisted by Conservatives / Regressives… They are fucking wrong about every solution to every problem we face since the dawn of time.
Because by their nature and beliefs, they are resistant to change, any change, even good ones.
Not true. They are in favor of change that benefits the wealthy. They resist any change the benefits the general public.
They’re not for just any change that benefits the wealthy: they’re against any mutually beneficial change.
Some might even say that’s the way things have always been, so they refuse to change it…
What do conservatives want? Money and control. If they willingly choose to have less of one, it’s in pursuit of the other.
They are resisted because they threaten the status quo of the oligarchs and the useful idiots they are able to convince. In my country, they mostly do it by doing barbecues, concerts during the campaign, giving people in the countryside buckets, umbrellas a bag of rice and bottle of oil, and lots of TV and TikTok propaganda. In the US, religion seems to plays a much bigger role.
But work is
9-59-6, can’t have flexible hours. Everyone knows a busy employee is less likely to get weird ideas like unionizing.But you can’t control and micromanage the
slaveemployee if they aren’t physically present at work. And also, we need to keep the employee busy on the 1-2hr commute, see above point.You mean the poor landlords lose the bread from their mouth and not get paid rent?
Stealing the bread of our poor military complex and police forces? Can’t have that.
See point #1
My point is that it’s literally a class war between the oligarchs in power and the rest of us.
Have you considered that those things aren’t done not because of stupidity but because a small subset of society that holds most of the political power and media benefits from those things being done?
The system isn’t flawed in the sense that it doesn’t work. It does. Extremely well. It just doesn’t work for you and me or to make everyone’s lives better.
Yeah imagine bees saying we KNOW smoking us and removing our honey leads to disorder and pointless work, so why do we keep doing it?
A little glib I admit, but I agree. There are a minority of people holding us back, and not enough political capital, or incentive, to make the necessary changes.
I don’t know if that analogy fully works. Bees get safety, they get a maintained home, as a colony they get healthcare from pests and similar, they get security when things get rough
Yes, they do more work, but the beekeeper also cares for them, and ensures their survival to a greater degree
Not to mention, they’re not caged, they’re free to leave
Yeah, if bees are stressed by their hive location, they move. Bees will just leave honey farms if they have some sort of detrimental effect that out weights the benefits of the hive location.
Yeah, but we also know school is more about free childcare that allows both parents to go to work than it is about actual education.
We also know that a large part of the real estate market is dependent on leasing office space.
Again, creating more homes drives down property value.
It also creates jobs for police officers, income for private prisons, and strips minorities of their rights.
This is once again an issue with the real estate market. Cutting the work week also cuts into profits of companies dependent on demand made from people commuting to and from work.
It’s not that we don’t take account of the results, it’s just that the results do not benefit the nonsensical economic system we’ve adapted to. Our system does not create value from the things we have, it creates value from the things we withold.
Getting this stitched onto a throw pillow and plastered all over those “In This House We Believe” placards.
Ahh yes, another untapped market! Inspirational chachkies for billionaires.
It’s right up there with my "Lie. Cheat. Steal. " “Live. Laugh. Love.” painting.
Wow, I’m starting to think that maybe real estate shouldn’t be a commodity subjected to market forces.
Be prepared to be assassinated by a jr level manager from Black Rock. Keep your head on a swivel. Bryce played lacrosse for Princeton, he don’t miss son.
fair, but then how would houses be sold and bought?
they shouldn’t.
then how would people move?
Taking a page from the Singapore HDB, housing can be sold/bought by the state, and prices are set by what the applicant can afford, rather than what the market is willing to pay. This allows residents to move to different locations, or change dwelling size to fit their currents needs (marriage, children, empty nesters, divorce, etc.).
I imagine this can work in a multi-city state, too… just need to make sure there is ample supply to allow for migrations without waiting lists.
Unlike rent control on rentals from a private market, price control for a majority public housing system can work, as a black market is hard to establish.
curious about how the value is calculated when selling if it is based on the applicant not the state/location of the property?
We’ve known for ages that paying for social services, healthcare and unemployment benefits increase the amount of spendable income the working class has and that this directly benefits the real economy while more income to top earners only means that that money is lost to the economy.
Most of the problems the US is facing could be fixed, or at least alleviated with social democratic programs. Better economy, better education, less crime, less partisanship, less drug abuse, less violence, less stress, less fear, better mental health, better physical health, less homelessness, more gender equality, more racial equality, more job security, better wages, better lifestyle, more happiness, less religion, etc. etc.
You have to cycle out old fucks to get progress.
After my generation dies you might be able to move forward in some of those fronts.
I will say, about the school times, that the biggest issue is the parent schedules, not the kids. Shifting times makes it much harder on parents, unless you also push tradwife-ish values: one parent must give up their career to care for the kids. It’s a sticky topic without an easy solution.
Edit the responses about the school times illustrate my point. I’m not saying there’s no solution; I’m saying there’s no easy solution that isn’t contentious.
Before this most recent US election, I had the same thought that the old fossils in power are the reasons nothing is getting better.
Yeah white men from Gen Z have shown the cycle will continue ad infinitum. It’s more about maintaining the racial hierarchy and patriarchy than age.
I think old fossils had a huge impact on the outcome of the election, with a lot of backing by rich individuals and business interests that are unrelated to wealth.
Kamala was relatively young, but look at the rest of Congress and the leadership at the state level. The average age of all state leadership, including governors, and Senate & House speakers, is 58. The average age of all state governors alone is 68.
I used to believe the first line in your comment but the new generation is swinging further right than their parents (mostly male). So now I’m not so sure
You might be right; I don’t interact with a lot of Z. If so, maybe it’s a good thing we’re on the path to an ecological catastrophe and another, this time man-made, global extinction event.
I mean I don’t either and probably if I didn’t I wouldn’t have the same findings, but that’s what the statistics say for the western world at least
Science advances one funeral at a time -Max Plank
What he was saying is that we can discover all the new things we want, but the people who have respected and established careers who don’t believe the new science tend to block/slow down it’s acceptance and further application until they die, then science advances…
I think that’s all of society, not just science though…
I call bullshit on this. Most school districts have high-schoolers starting at 7:30, middle-shoolers at 8, and elementary at 8:30, or something like that.
Yet, elementary aged kids are naturally up by 6 (if the parents are lucky; often earlier), and are also the biggest contingent that gets driven (instead of bussed) to school. A working parent can drive to their kid’s school and be on time for work without much issue early in the day, not so much at rush hour. And they are be up with their kids bright and early anyhow.
High-schoolers are the ones that need the most night sleep of the bunch, and with the latest sleep cycle. They are also the most independent. It’s not an issue to leave a high-schooler at home and go to work while they bus/drive/bike themselves to school later.
In short, both parents and kids schedules benefit from a reversal of the timetables, but we don’t do it for $REASONS.
outside of Elementary (kindergarden mostly) schools and suburbia there isn’t really a reason parents are needed for children to catch a bus/ walk a few miles to school.
You’re describing, like, 50% of the population of children in US. But ignoring that, there are other, valid reasons people don’t want to go off to work and leave their kids to catch a bus in a couple of hours. Even with buses, it’s not uncommon to see parents standing with their kids at the bus stop. In Minnesota in the winter, where it can sometimes reach -45°C in the winter, you don’t let your kid walk 4 blocks to stand for 20 minutes waiting for a bus that might be 20 minutes late because of snow. Frostbite of a very real risk in a lot of the world.
You’re thinking very locally.
I’ve gone to a bus stop in -40° weather before (northern Alaska), frostbite isn’t that much of a concern if you have good enough clothing (children should not be sent out in fabrics that lose all insulating properties when wet spend the extra if they are going out in even -20°C regularly) handwarmers do exist for gloves if the child has learned how not to burn themselves (and when burns are preferable to freezing) and they get their gloves wet.
it would be nice if school buses had trackers so kids could know how delayed they currently are (or if the route is canceled because the bus drove off the road again).
When one of us works from home, we can do both. We’re productive enough from home that the extra time missed while walking them to school or waiting at the bus stop with them is more than made up for, especially when we save commute time and money.
That’s great for white collar workers. It’s a bit of an entitled perspective, though; there are many people in the US who aren’t privileged enough to be able to do their jobs through Zoom.
There’s an easy solution: Push workdays later into the day so a 9-5 becomes an 11-7.
FTFY
work can get fucked if they think I’m giving up my evenings. We should be pushing for shorter workdays, too. Not just push them back.
I’ll do 4 days a week from 9-2, how about that?
when do i get to have fun?
2 Weeks every year. No, you don’t always get to choose which ones. Yes, they are also your sick days.
You can either adjust your sleep patterns to get the same amount of evening fun time, have fun in the morning, or organize and force the bourgeoisie to give you shorter workdays.
You have the understand that your culture is not predicated on logic, reason, or the scientific method. Its designed to feed the capitalist machine and perpetually increase productivity. That’s the only real outcome measure.
Starting school late will make it difficult for parents to get their kids to the bus stop / school on their way to work. We can’t disrupt the productivity of the parents - that’s the priority.
WFH decreases the control your employer has over you and also diminishes the value of their real estate. Will someone please think of the capitalists?
Housing homeless people is socialist. We musn’t disincentivize productive behavior!
Drugs and all “crime” must be allowed to happen and then stamped out by force. Only then can we use fear to control populations and define an outgroup that becomes our baseline for dehumanization.
All of this is by design in Western and many other modern cultures. It was never really a question of knowing better.
We start school at 9 since its bad for kids to start it early.
WFH is pretty common here
We treat drugs as disease and doing or owning them isnt illegal
Homeless do get shelter here
4 day workweek is being trialled constantly and only lost since some cunts take advantage of it and ruin it for everyone.
There are changes happening worldwide. The bigger the country, the more stagnant it is.
Best I can do is school at 7:30 and sometimes 6:50.
6 day workweeks are pretty common in my country now. almost as if breaking our spirits takes precedence over productivity in capitalism.
Greece? :-/
no way greece also has a 6 day workweek 😔
workers of the world are due for some uniting.
It’s not that we refuse, we just can’t help but put stupid arrogant people in charge of everything. They don’t listen to science, just themselves, so nothing changes.
As a species, we’ve basically been doing this forever. Or at least since Machiavelli wrote the Prince, which is literally what’s happening everywhere now.
Simply put, those with intelligence know enough to realize what they don’t know. So they won’t make claims they can’t pursue. Politically, this will always work against them, and in favor of any loud idiot that promises everything, but can’t deliver. People will always pick the loud idiot, because the loud idiot will promise more than the intelligent option could ever reasonably accomplish.
The secret to solving this is simply transparency, and regulation.
That is: don’t let stupid leaders be stupid behind closed doors. Bring it into the open for scrutiny by professionals. Don’t let stupid people hold positions of authority by placing requirements for those positions to be held. Military service, or public service requirements work, but so do simple tests that could prevent hostile idiots from holding positions of power they will guarantee abuse.
There’s more solutions provided in the Prince as well. So this problem certainly isn’t a new one.
To be fair on point 1, schools are staggered with start times so there isn’t a million buses on the road at once.
We need to create a new state of enlightenment, the technocracy state.
people who upvote the parent comment but downvote “technocracy” don’t understand what technocracy means