You’re still saying, explicitly, that I’m doing something that I explicitly said you’ve misunderstood, and I am not doing, and then pointed out the reasons. This isn’t about the optics of anything. It’s about how you’re gonna protest.
“We have a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws”
That’s sort of very strongly included in the concept of civil disobedience, which I have advocated for in this thread several times, but I can understand missing that implication if you’re not familiar with the concept. Do you think laws that are against violence against other people are inherently unjust, so one should break them? Or which laws specifically are you talking about? Or are you talking about the right to protest? Because yes. That is indeed important. “You should emphasise the reason for these protests, more than complaining about how” I heard someone saying recently. You have the right to protest, and should they try to take it away from you, you have a moral duty to oppose that. But you don’t have a moral duty to violently riot just because. That’s what I keep iterating. THIS ISN’T ABOUT ANY ‘OPTICS’. This is about how to protest.
Because knowing you could be killed or deported to a prison in El Salvador and demonstrating against a fascist anyway
What are you talking about? Remember how you just argued that the protestors don’t actually get to influence how they’re perceived? Then why the fuck would you choose to do violence on people and make it easier for them to enact their bullshit on you, when you can try non-violent protests to begin with? You can go on the street to protest without throwing stones in windows, you know? Throwing stones in windows makes you a worse person, not a better one.
He will take whatever power he wants regardless of how much people kick and scream in response.
Ah yes, “don’t do anything because you can’t do anything since there’s nothing to be done it’s all been done already by the giant absolute hegemony who’s absolute and who can’t be influenced in any way just give up”. Remember those childish absolutes I keep mentioning? This is very much your central theme through-out your messages. “Give into apathy, you won’t win anyway.”
No-one has “chastised” anyone. I’m just schooling you.
This isn’t about the optics of anything. It’s about how you’re gonna protest.
Except your reasoning for this revolves around optics
Now which do you think will set off more people, watching cops maze and watercannon people sitting and singing kumbayaa, or using those same tactics on a violent group of people tearing up storefronts?
Which do you think will have a larger impact in motivating the general public? Which is easier to modify into whatever the fuck they want, even if there was justification for rioting? Which will play better for the State when ran in news highlights?
I’ve been saying this whole time that it doesn’t matter if you are sitting around singing kumbayaa, the tanks are still gonna roll in and you’ll still be lumped together with the other protestors who aren’t.
Do you think laws that are against violence against other people are inherently unjust, so one should break them?
No. I’m saying that protests almost always involve breaking the law, and that will be used as justification for police violence. Trump planned to send in the National Guard before anyone had lit a match Being peaceful will not avoid this.
What are you talking about? Remember how you just argued that the protestors don’t actually get to influence how they’re perceived?
The civil rights movement organized sit ins and nonviolent demonstrations knowing full well that they’d be subject to assault and arrest. Them doing those things knowing what it meant made their point for them. You asked “why give them a reason to punish you?”, and this is why.
Then why the fuck would you choose to do violence on people and make it easier for them to enact their bullshit on you, when you can try non-violent protests to begin with?
I’ve repeatedly said I don’t advocate for violence. But as with many of the protests in MLK’s time, well organized protests sometimes devolved into outright conflict. That doesn’t invalidate the nonviolent parts of that protest.
Throwing stones in windows makes you a worse person, not a better one
Lmao, now who is the one using definitive language? Why does that window have any moral significance? Better send in the national guard to protect that poor window.
Ah yes, “don’t do anything because you can’t do anything since there’s nothing to be done it’s all been done already by the giant absolute hegemony who’s absolute and who can’t be influenced in any way just give up”
Jesus christ you’re dense. I’m advocating against complacency you dumbass.
No-one has “chastised” anyone. I’m just schooling you.
Nah, that’s what you think you’re doing, but you’re coming off as a nag.
Except your reasoning for this revolves around optics
Except it doesn’t, despite you trying to say it does. Ive explicitly mentioned they don’t matter, and explained the reasons. You ignored them. This isn’t about his protesting is perceived. It is what is achieved by it.
I feel like I’ve written that a dozen times now, ffs.
“The tanks are still gonna roll in and kill everyone”
Well then if you’re so set on this infantile absolutist daydream of yours, why not go out as a moral person? And no, moral doesn’t mean “not opposing injustice”. As I’ve explained another dozen times, you have the duty to oppose unjust laws, (like you conveniently reminded us in your last comment, despite me going on and on about civil disobedience — almost as if you didn’t understand the term or hadn’t properly read the replies) and you have the right to assembly. The right to assembly is old as fuck, and if they try to take it away, yeah, it’s time for a revolution. But see, you don’t have the right to a riot.
So if you’re actively rioting, the police are within their rights to come and disband and apprehend people to stop it.
If, however, you’re exercising youre right to assembly, then they can’t do that.
Now imagine a scenario in which there’s active rioting. The police can go in and take every single person, no matter how peaceful, under the guide of suppressing a riot. If everyone keeps their cool, when when shot with rubber bullets, teargassed, pushed, even arrested, then the cops will have to keep manufacturing completely bullshit reasons.
If the the right to assembly is clearly revoked and a dictatorship installed, there’s right to rebel. Until then, you shouldn’t, if you want to live in a democracy. Because it’s the best move. I know it, Bernie knows it and Chomsky knows it. You’d know that had you actually read any of his works.
Breaking the law doesn’t matter. Non-violence does. Breaking the law is again very much included in the “civil disobedience” I’ve mentioned a couple of dozen times now. Weird how you can’t reply to any of my comments about you having missed that?
The civil rights movement organized sit ins and nonviolent demonstrations knowing full well that they’d be subject to assault and arrest. Them doing those things knowing what it meant made their point for them. You asked “why give them a reason to punish you?”, and this is why.
Are you high on acid? “The civil rights movement organized sit ins and nonviolent demonstrations”. Why did you write “non-violent” there? Perhaps because there people had to stress, emphasise, NON-VIOLENCE, just as Bernie is doing, and who’s point I’m here reiterating now for the umpteenth time in a row.
So what is it you’re advocating for or arguing against?
That doesn’t invalidate the nonviolent parts of that protest
And why would it? Where the fuck did you pull out that I implied that? Please, be specific. Except you can’t, since you’re just larping intelligence, linking some dumb-ass YouTube shorts, quotin shit about “we’ve a moral duty to oppose unjust laws” because your dumb-ass didn’t understand what “civil disobedience” mean.
I tried adopting your tone for a while so you can see how writing something like that would look like I’m getting aggravated. Except I’m not. But you clearly are. Why? Do you think this is personal? I’m advocating for the best strategy for the US to get itself out of this shitty situation, but luckily, you don’t need to listen to me, as Bernie made the points well enough, and I’m just backing him.
I’m advocating against complacency you dumbass.
Again, just like I keep reminding you of your naive absolutes, I’d also like to remind you that just because you think something, doesn’t make it true. If you don’t understand the rhetoric you’re pushing, then maybe it’s not the rhetoric you think it is.
You are implicitly advocating for complacency with your naive absolutes. You just don’t realise it. You’re perpetuating apathy. And apathy is the greatest tool of the opressor. Anywhere.
Nah, that’s what you think you’re doing, but you’re coming off as a nag.
Oh, like your mom, when she tells you that girls won’t like a boy who doesn’t bathe or shower and wears dirty undies?
You’re still saying, explicitly, that I’m doing something that I explicitly said you’ve misunderstood, and I am not doing, and then pointed out the reasons. This isn’t about the optics of anything. It’s about how you’re gonna protest.
“We have a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws”
That’s sort of very strongly included in the concept of civil disobedience, which I have advocated for in this thread several times, but I can understand missing that implication if you’re not familiar with the concept. Do you think laws that are against violence against other people are inherently unjust, so one should break them? Or which laws specifically are you talking about? Or are you talking about the right to protest? Because yes. That is indeed important. “You should emphasise the reason for these protests, more than complaining about how” I heard someone saying recently. You have the right to protest, and should they try to take it away from you, you have a moral duty to oppose that. But you don’t have a moral duty to violently riot just because. That’s what I keep iterating. THIS ISN’T ABOUT ANY ‘OPTICS’. This is about how to protest.
What are you talking about? Remember how you just argued that the protestors don’t actually get to influence how they’re perceived? Then why the fuck would you choose to do violence on people and make it easier for them to enact their bullshit on you, when you can try non-violent protests to begin with? You can go on the street to protest without throwing stones in windows, you know? Throwing stones in windows makes you a worse person, not a better one.
Ah yes, “don’t do anything because you can’t do anything since there’s nothing to be done it’s all been done already by the giant absolute hegemony who’s absolute and who can’t be influenced in any way just give up”. Remember those childish absolutes I keep mentioning? This is very much your central theme through-out your messages. “Give into apathy, you won’t win anyway.”
No-one has “chastised” anyone. I’m just schooling you.
Except your reasoning for this revolves around optics
I’ve been saying this whole time that it doesn’t matter if you are sitting around singing kumbayaa, the tanks are still gonna roll in and you’ll still be lumped together with the other protestors who aren’t.
No. I’m saying that protests almost always involve breaking the law, and that will be used as justification for police violence. Trump planned to send in the National Guard before anyone had lit a match Being peaceful will not avoid this.
The civil rights movement organized sit ins and nonviolent demonstrations knowing full well that they’d be subject to assault and arrest. Them doing those things knowing what it meant made their point for them. You asked “why give them a reason to punish you?”, and this is why.
I’ve repeatedly said I don’t advocate for violence. But as with many of the protests in MLK’s time, well organized protests sometimes devolved into outright conflict. That doesn’t invalidate the nonviolent parts of that protest.
Lmao, now who is the one using definitive language? Why does that window have any moral significance? Better send in the national guard to protect that poor window.
Jesus christ you’re dense. I’m advocating against complacency you dumbass.
Nah, that’s what you think you’re doing, but you’re coming off as a nag.
Except it doesn’t, despite you trying to say it does. Ive explicitly mentioned they don’t matter, and explained the reasons. You ignored them. This isn’t about his protesting is perceived. It is what is achieved by it.
I feel like I’ve written that a dozen times now, ffs.
“The tanks are still gonna roll in and kill everyone”
Well then if you’re so set on this infantile absolutist daydream of yours, why not go out as a moral person? And no, moral doesn’t mean “not opposing injustice”. As I’ve explained another dozen times, you have the duty to oppose unjust laws, (like you conveniently reminded us in your last comment, despite me going on and on about civil disobedience — almost as if you didn’t understand the term or hadn’t properly read the replies) and you have the right to assembly. The right to assembly is old as fuck, and if they try to take it away, yeah, it’s time for a revolution. But see, you don’t have the right to a riot.
So if you’re actively rioting, the police are within their rights to come and disband and apprehend people to stop it.
If, however, you’re exercising youre right to assembly, then they can’t do that.
Now imagine a scenario in which there’s active rioting. The police can go in and take every single person, no matter how peaceful, under the guide of suppressing a riot. If everyone keeps their cool, when when shot with rubber bullets, teargassed, pushed, even arrested, then the cops will have to keep manufacturing completely bullshit reasons.
If the the right to assembly is clearly revoked and a dictatorship installed, there’s right to rebel. Until then, you shouldn’t, if you want to live in a democracy. Because it’s the best move. I know it, Bernie knows it and Chomsky knows it. You’d know that had you actually read any of his works.
Breaking the law doesn’t matter. Non-violence does. Breaking the law is again very much included in the “civil disobedience” I’ve mentioned a couple of dozen times now. Weird how you can’t reply to any of my comments about you having missed that?
Are you high on acid? “The civil rights movement organized sit ins and nonviolent demonstrations”. Why did you write “non-violent” there? Perhaps because there people had to stress, emphasise, NON-VIOLENCE, just as Bernie is doing, and who’s point I’m here reiterating now for the umpteenth time in a row.
So what is it you’re advocating for or arguing against?
And why would it? Where the fuck did you pull out that I implied that? Please, be specific. Except you can’t, since you’re just larping intelligence, linking some dumb-ass YouTube shorts, quotin shit about “we’ve a moral duty to oppose unjust laws” because your dumb-ass didn’t understand what “civil disobedience” mean.
I tried adopting your tone for a while so you can see how writing something like that would look like I’m getting aggravated. Except I’m not. But you clearly are. Why? Do you think this is personal? I’m advocating for the best strategy for the US to get itself out of this shitty situation, but luckily, you don’t need to listen to me, as Bernie made the points well enough, and I’m just backing him.
Again, just like I keep reminding you of your naive absolutes, I’d also like to remind you that just because you think something, doesn’t make it true. If you don’t understand the rhetoric you’re pushing, then maybe it’s not the rhetoric you think it is.
You are implicitly advocating for complacency with your naive absolutes. You just don’t realise it. You’re perpetuating apathy. And apathy is the greatest tool of the opressor. Anywhere.
Oh, like your mom, when she tells you that girls won’t like a boy who doesn’t bathe or shower and wears dirty undies?
Yeah, that’s called schooling you.