Every day you wake up in the morning you can open up your phone and check new videos of murdered and mutilated children in Palestine at the hands of Israel.
You can go on a google search to find images of the 1989 Tiananmen protest and the violence that took place, very gore stuff. We’re talking 1989, most cameras were analog, bulky and visible, and required professional developing afterwards. As censored as that’s been in China, you can still find plenty of photo evidence of violence in and against the protests.
Yet, in 2025, somehow, in the smartphone era, when almost literally every Chinese adult citizen carries a camera in their pocket with internet access (and widespread non-prosecuted access of VPNs in China to bypass the great firewall), there isn’t a shred of photographic evidence of violence against the Uyghur people. The claims start on 2019-2020, and in FIVE YEARS, it hasn’t been possible to capture photographic evidence of the harrowing genocide?
my understanding is that it’s at the point of erasure without outright murder at this time. being sent to concentration camps, forced labor, denied right to their culture, etc. the stuff that tends to come before mass killings, and the ultimate purpose of mass killings, is erasure of a group identity.
maybe it’s not a genocide like in Bosnia but it’s certainly problematic. the actions seem to be not far off from the ways indigenous americans have been erased, which is another place where the word “genocide” has been debated
There’s no evidence whatsoever of forced labor, and calling the reeducation camps “concentration camps” is very misleading and not really based on actual evidence, just on misinterpreted Adrian Zenz anti-chinese propaganda.
In China, it’s normal for teens 13 to 18 years old to be interned into boarding schools in which they study about 12h a day. In western Europe that would be considered child abuse, in China many see it as a rather normal thing.
This isn’t to say there’s probably been a degree of authority abuse and police state for an interval of time in Xinjiang as a consequence of counter-terrorism policy. But Uyghur culture and language are celebrated, people enjoy better living conditions than 10 years ago, and you can see the vibrant life and culture in Kashgar if you go watch any content from any content creator who’s been in the area lately.
The original definition of genocide was meant to include cultural erasure, but that was vetoed by the USA and other countries since they would be guilty of genocide themselves.
How is this evidence of genocide? This is evidence for the existence of correction camps (which you can obviously criticise) during a very concrete period of time in Xinjiang over the span of a few years, not evidence of genocide
such an embarrassing propaganda nothing burger. BBC propaganda crew being stopped from filming proves any demonic lie they made? Where is armed “supervisors”, where is barbed wire surrounding factories? “victims of communism” organization is a nazi front. BBC a CIA propaganda arm. OMG a job recruitment ad mentioned the “glory of work” in its marketing appeal. Must be mind control forced labour.
Because BBC is a British state media company, and it has motives to create anti-china propaganda. The EU famously forbade access to Russian media after the invasion of Ukraine, do you think this is to prevent the outside world from seeing the horrors of the EU? Is there Chinese state media presence in US congress press releases?
Again: how does China stop every single Uyghur adult from taking pics with their smartphone? How did they not manage in 1989 with a reduced number of analog cameras which would need professional development, but they can manage in the smartphone era where a Chinese citizen can upload a picture on the internet 10 seconds after taking it?
You can continue to hang onto some conspiracy-theory-esque logic of “but it doesn’t make sense”, or you can face reality. There are enough hurdles to getting a photo on the internet and then noticed by the wider public that it’s entirely explainable.
If you still take seriously anything coming from Adrian Zenz, chairman of the Victims of Communism Memorial Association and rabid Christian conservative, it’s your fault
weak. Ok, education camps show videos of how glorious and indivisible China is. Did you know that US children are forced to recite similar pledge of allegiance every day? Ok, the police have made a plan for dealing with insurrection. This is pure brainwashing about the power to present nothing as brainwashing, with enough style and dramatic music score.
Thanks, I hadn’t seen that. What strikes me as odd is that neither side mentions a huge factor in the conflict: China’s investment in the “belt & road” initiative which relies on the old “Silk Road” route which passes through Xinjiang.
The Uighurs did have an independence separatist movement (China isn’t paranoid) and it would disrupt these plans. China aint letting go of its tight grip any time soon.
Any source from anywhere could be propaganda. Here is your chance to debunk the BBC report if you want.
You are confusing banning news production by foreigners with banning transmission of foreign news.
BBC probably did make it difficult for Russian state news to access UK social media users after Russia invaded Ukraine for their “three day special operation” (obviously a lie from the start). They probably did not forbid access to the Russian journalists wanting to film in the UK.
China probably forbids BBC news with their great internet firewall. I know they ban the Tiananmen Square massacre imagery.
I don’t think UK forbids Chinese from filming in UK. China did not forbid BBC from filming in China either but they did try to forbid filming the detention centre.
Again: how does China stop every single Uyghur adult from taking pics with their smartphone?
Not “every single Uygur”, just the ones locked up. That is how detention works, even in the West.
Which is why I’m bringing up things such as the overwhelming lack of photographic evidence over the 5+ years since the claims started, not exclusively blaming the BBC.
Here is your chance to debunk the BBC report if you want
Very convenient how the burden of proof is on me to prove that a report is fake. Casting away fake news is easy and doesn’t require any research or effort, debunking them is more complicated. How about this: the lack of photographic evidence from the BBC or any other report is enough for me to deny the claims of genocide.
You are confusing banning news production by foreigners with banning transmission of foreign news
No, I talked about both, I gave you the explicit example of the lack of Chinese state media in US institutional press releases.
China probably forbids BBC news with their great internet firewall
Good. Things like this are why there isn’t a pro-fascist movement in China, unlike the western world. China is progressively opening up now that it has enough soft power to maintain the western propaganda at bay, whereas the west closes up to Chinese social media by banning Tiktok or requiring it to have american ownership.
know they ban the Tiananmen Square massacre imagery
Yet you can readily find pictures of it happening, how come you can’t find pictures of a 5-year-long genocide in the age of smartphones?
Not “every single Uygur”, just the ones locked up
The reeducation centers are almost all closed already. I’m not arguing there wasn’t a reeducation campaign for a few years in Xinjiang targeting Uyghur people as a measure of counter-terrorism, I’m arguing that it’s already over (hence no news since 2022-2023) and that it doesn’t remotely constitute genocide.
Every day you wake up in the morning you can open up your phone and check new videos of murdered and mutilated children in Palestine at the hands of Israel.
You can go on a google search to find images of the 1989 Tiananmen protest and the violence that took place, very gore stuff. We’re talking 1989, most cameras were analog, bulky and visible, and required professional developing afterwards. As censored as that’s been in China, you can still find plenty of photo evidence of violence in and against the protests.
Yet, in 2025, somehow, in the smartphone era, when almost literally every Chinese adult citizen carries a camera in their pocket with internet access (and widespread non-prosecuted access of VPNs in China to bypass the great firewall), there isn’t a shred of photographic evidence of violence against the Uyghur people. The claims start on 2019-2020, and in FIVE YEARS, it hasn’t been possible to capture photographic evidence of the harrowing genocide?
my understanding is that it’s at the point of erasure without outright murder at this time. being sent to concentration camps, forced labor, denied right to their culture, etc. the stuff that tends to come before mass killings, and the ultimate purpose of mass killings, is erasure of a group identity.
maybe it’s not a genocide like in Bosnia but it’s certainly problematic. the actions seem to be not far off from the ways indigenous americans have been erased, which is another place where the word “genocide” has been debated
There’s no evidence whatsoever of forced labor, and calling the reeducation camps “concentration camps” is very misleading and not really based on actual evidence, just on misinterpreted Adrian Zenz anti-chinese propaganda.
In China, it’s normal for teens 13 to 18 years old to be interned into boarding schools in which they study about 12h a day. In western Europe that would be considered child abuse, in China many see it as a rather normal thing.
This isn’t to say there’s probably been a degree of authority abuse and police state for an interval of time in Xinjiang as a consequence of counter-terrorism policy. But Uyghur culture and language are celebrated, people enjoy better living conditions than 10 years ago, and you can see the vibrant life and culture in Kashgar if you go watch any content from any content creator who’s been in the area lately.
The original definition of genocide was meant to include cultural erasure, but that was vetoed by the USA and other countries since they would be guilty of genocide themselves.
I googled it and found a literal trove of evidence.
Here’s a starting point since it’s eluded you for so long.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_Police_Files
How is this evidence of genocide? This is evidence for the existence of correction camps (which you can obviously criticise) during a very concrete period of time in Xinjiang over the span of a few years, not evidence of genocide
That is misleading. Why did authorities try to stop BBC from filming?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=t28nnviKar4
such an embarrassing propaganda nothing burger. BBC propaganda crew being stopped from filming proves any demonic lie they made? Where is armed “supervisors”, where is barbed wire surrounding factories? “victims of communism” organization is a nazi front. BBC a CIA propaganda arm. OMG a job recruitment ad mentioned the “glory of work” in its marketing appeal. Must be mind control forced labour.
Because BBC is a British state media company, and it has motives to create anti-china propaganda. The EU famously forbade access to Russian media after the invasion of Ukraine, do you think this is to prevent the outside world from seeing the horrors of the EU? Is there Chinese state media presence in US congress press releases?
Again: how does China stop every single Uyghur adult from taking pics with their smartphone? How did they not manage in 1989 with a reduced number of analog cameras which would need professional development, but they can manage in the smartphone era where a Chinese citizen can upload a picture on the internet 10 seconds after taking it?
Except there’s evidence, and not just satellite photos of internment camps. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/hacked-chinese-government-files-gives-new-insights-on-the-mass-detention-of-ethnic-uighurs
You can continue to hang onto some conspiracy-theory-esque logic of “but it doesn’t make sense”, or you can face reality. There are enough hurdles to getting a photo on the internet and then noticed by the wider public that it’s entirely explainable.
Source of your article:
If you still take seriously anything coming from Adrian Zenz, chairman of the Victims of Communism Memorial Association and rabid Christian conservative, it’s your fault
weak. Ok, education camps show videos of how glorious and indivisible China is. Did you know that US children are forced to recite similar pledge of allegiance every day? Ok, the police have made a plan for dealing with insurrection. This is pure brainwashing about the power to present nothing as brainwashing, with enough style and dramatic music score.
Thanks, I hadn’t seen that. What strikes me as odd is that neither side mentions a huge factor in the conflict: China’s investment in the “belt & road” initiative which relies on the old “Silk Road” route which passes through Xinjiang.
The Uighurs did have an independence separatist movement (China isn’t paranoid) and it would disrupt these plans. China aint letting go of its tight grip any time soon.
Any source from anywhere could be propaganda. Here is your chance to debunk the BBC report if you want.
You are confusing banning news production by foreigners with banning transmission of foreign news.
BBC probably did make it difficult for Russian state news to access UK social media users after Russia invaded Ukraine for their “three day special operation” (obviously a lie from the start). They probably did not forbid access to the Russian journalists wanting to film in the UK.
China probably forbids BBC news with their great internet firewall. I know they ban the Tiananmen Square massacre imagery.
I don’t think UK forbids Chinese from filming in UK. China did not forbid BBC from filming in China either but they did try to forbid filming the detention centre.
Not “every single Uygur”, just the ones locked up. That is how detention works, even in the West.
Which is why I’m bringing up things such as the overwhelming lack of photographic evidence over the 5+ years since the claims started, not exclusively blaming the BBC.
Very convenient how the burden of proof is on me to prove that a report is fake. Casting away fake news is easy and doesn’t require any research or effort, debunking them is more complicated. How about this: the lack of photographic evidence from the BBC or any other report is enough for me to deny the claims of genocide.
No, I talked about both, I gave you the explicit example of the lack of Chinese state media in US institutional press releases.
Good. Things like this are why there isn’t a pro-fascist movement in China, unlike the western world. China is progressively opening up now that it has enough soft power to maintain the western propaganda at bay, whereas the west closes up to Chinese social media by banning Tiktok or requiring it to have american ownership.
Yet you can readily find pictures of it happening, how come you can’t find pictures of a 5-year-long genocide in the age of smartphones?
The reeducation centers are almost all closed already. I’m not arguing there wasn’t a reeducation campaign for a few years in Xinjiang targeting Uyghur people as a measure of counter-terrorism, I’m arguing that it’s already over (hence no news since 2022-2023) and that it doesn’t remotely constitute genocide.