cross-posted from: https://lemm.ee/post/64561299

The number of German firms closing their doors for good rose last year by as much as 16% on the year to 196,100, the Creditreform agency and the ZEW economic research institute reported on Wednesday.

  • Hotznplotzn@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
    31·
    23 days ago

    @[email protected]

    When you share a source, you should read it before making conclusions based on the headline.

    An English translation about the interview you linked:

    Of the Germans who decide to move abroad, more than one in five respondents expressed the intention to live abroad permanently. Half of those surveyed, on the other hand, are planning a temporary stay abroad of up to five years in most cases […]

    What is surprising in our findings is indeed the very high average level of qualifications of the emigrants, but our analyses show hardly any evidence of a permanent “brain drain” from Germany […]

    Emphasis mine.

    • doodledup@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3·
      22 days ago

      “The fraction of the people that were asked”. Who was asked? Also, how do you ask people that have already emigrated to another country and don’t plan to come back? Questionable methods. I’m only interested in the hard facts.

      You can turn and twist it as much as you want. Fact is, there is a netto exodus of academics for economic reasons. And this has been going on for a while and not just yesterday.

      • Hotznplotzn@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
        1·
        21 days ago

        Fact is, there is a netto exodus of academics for economic reasons.

        Where do they go? Do you have any hard facts?

        • doodledup@lemmy.worldEnglish
          1·
          21 days ago

          USA, Switzerland and Austria accounts for the majority of target countries. Around 60% if I remember correctly, correct me on that number if I’m wrong. Might be more than that. Emigration for economic reasons checks out though.

          • Hotznplotzn@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
            1·
            21 days ago

            … if I remember correctly, correct me on that number if I’m wrong.

            First, you post sources that contradict your own claims, and now you ‘remember’ numbers. I already corrected you, in part by using your own sources.

            Such a debate is waste of time, bro. I end this discussion.

            • doodledup@lemmy.worldEnglish
              13·
              21 days ago

              https://www.bamf.de/SharedDocs/Anlagen/DE/Forschung/Migrationsberichte/migrationsbericht-2023-kurzfassung.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=7

              1000008680

              Netto exodus of 80.000 German citizens per year. And that or similar has been going on for more than a decade. Apparently they all intent to come back right? At some point? If not during the past 10+ years then when exactly is all of that majority coming back?

              Also, no, my sources contradict my claims only partly. And I already explained why it’s nonsense: You can’t ask already permanently emigrated people whether they want to return. And as I explained above: if the majority intends to return and that is reported every year, then the data from the past years doesn’t coincide with that claim.

              About the destination countries:

              https://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article253842704/20-Jahres-Tief-Immer-weniger-Deutsche-wandern-in-die-USA-aus.html

              Switzerland, Austria and USA are the countries to go to, although USA less so than previously. And my 60% wasn’t too wrong either.

              You’re misinformed if you think Germans aren’t emigrating en masse for economic reasons.

              Your response to end the discussion and blaming it on me is arrogant and it pisses me off.

              So let me make it visual for you, so you can understand it better and we can finish this discussion:

              1000008679

              • Hotznplotzn@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
                1·
                20 days ago

                People are migrating in any country, and sometimes they come back as is the case for Germany.

                Read your own sources:

                What is surprising in our findings is indeed the very high average level of qualifications of the emigrants, but **our analyses show hardly any evidence of a permanent “brain drain” from Germany **[…]

                Addition:

                Germany’s research and innovation assessed – (2024)

                Germany has managed to reverse its long-standing brain drain of the 2000s and early 2010s, and is now attracting more researchers than it is losing. “Germany is therefore on a favourable trajectory,” the report says.

                You’ll find a lot more on this across the web.

                • doodledup@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  13·
                  20 days ago

                  People are migrating in any country, and sometimes they come back as is the case for Germany.

                  Again, as I already said, quesionable methods: this study is based on interviews with emigrants. But how do you ask emigrants that have already emigrated and don’t plan to come back? It doesn’t matter anyways. The numbers speak for themselves. It doesn’t matter whether they want to return or not, they are gone now.

                  Germany has managed to reverse its long-standing brain drain of the 2000s and early 2010s, and is now attracting more researchers than it is losing. “Germany is therefore on a favourable trajectory,” the report says.

                  I did not know we are gaining scientific researchers in particular. This is good. However, this is just researchers. I’m talking about academics in general and emigration of German citizens. High-paying qualified workers. I shared my sources about that from the Statistisches Bundesamt.