I’m not sure about the point you’re trying to make but the bijlmer, while having had a tricky past, is now a perfectly safe neighborhood. You really can’t point at the Dutch to make this point (if I understood this thread correctly, it’s early). They work hard at making these areas mixed use, promote cultural mixing etc. Paris on the other hand not so much.
A lot of formerly bad neighborhoods are turning, and I think that’s mostly due to gentrification, not because the idea behind the neighborhood (in this case Bijlmer) was somehow belatedly good…
The idea of the Bijlmer and how it was presented sounded great on paper, but neighborhoods that are exclusively these cheap stacked blocks still mostly attract people on the bottom of the economic ladder and thusly also a relatively large amount of people that will misbehave in various ways. I don´t think culture is relevant here.
This status quo changes now because apartments evidently go for 300 to 400k “because Amsterdam” and the people they originally built those blocks for can´t afford that in a million years.
Right yeah the whole project was a total disaster, there’s lots of info about all the ways it was badly done. Similar bad ideas as the French basically just putting all the “undesirables” in a bucket on the side. My point is they corrected course about it same as they did in Osdorp, like sure these days gentrification and housing prices in the whole Randstad are just insane so the dynamics are different but I do think it also starts with an actual will to do good urban planning corrections originally. I’m just saying, the Dutch are a bad example because they’re some of the best in the world at this stuff.
The Bijlmer in Amsterdam in the Netherlands, exactly the same
I’m not sure about the point you’re trying to make but the bijlmer, while having had a tricky past, is now a perfectly safe neighborhood. You really can’t point at the Dutch to make this point (if I understood this thread correctly, it’s early). They work hard at making these areas mixed use, promote cultural mixing etc. Paris on the other hand not so much.
A lot of formerly bad neighborhoods are turning, and I think that’s mostly due to gentrification, not because the idea behind the neighborhood (in this case Bijlmer) was somehow belatedly good…
The idea of the Bijlmer and how it was presented sounded great on paper, but neighborhoods that are exclusively these cheap stacked blocks still mostly attract people on the bottom of the economic ladder and thusly also a relatively large amount of people that will misbehave in various ways. I don´t think culture is relevant here.
This status quo changes now because apartments evidently go for 300 to 400k “because Amsterdam” and the people they originally built those blocks for can´t afford that in a million years.
Right yeah the whole project was a total disaster, there’s lots of info about all the ways it was badly done. Similar bad ideas as the French basically just putting all the “undesirables” in a bucket on the side. My point is they corrected course about it same as they did in Osdorp, like sure these days gentrification and housing prices in the whole Randstad are just insane so the dynamics are different but I do think it also starts with an actual will to do good urban planning corrections originally. I’m just saying, the Dutch are a bad example because they’re some of the best in the world at this stuff.