yep it’s pretty horrible. any time gender issues are brought up there’s dozens of comments saying “what about the men” and completely missing the point
The response to “what about men” comments is, we’re already talking about men when we talk about misogyny. Misandry and misogyny are the exact same problem, strictly enforced gender roles. If you deviate, you are punished. The men that are caregivers are derided just like the women that refuse to rear children. Every other related paradigm punches down into the people who do not conform. Stoicism in men, histrionics in women.
Either is a foil for the other and it’s exactly the same bullshit.
As a guy, I do recognise that men are disadvantaged in many areas and need to be put on equal footing with women-- like courts disproportionately award custody of children to mothers, regardless of how unfit the mother is to be a caregiver. But broadly speaking from my pespective, women are still at more disadvantage. I used to live in a bad part of my city for many years and have had little to no issues. However, it is a different story from women I spoke who got harrased, and another hit on the head. They said they will avoid going to the city ever again. I remember sharing the accounts of these women to other men, and the men were surprised because their experience is the complete opposite. Women are still seen as weak. And in the corporate hierarchy, men (of tall statures) disproportionately make up the board of directors and executive roles.
The court thing is not universally true. I worked in a family law firm for several years, and the practice in the courts here is to start from a baseline of equal custody and placement, and I’ve heard the same about other states. The men who lost out were the ones who wouldn’t fight, because they were convinced that the courts were biased. But hell, in one case, we got full custody and placement for a guy whose son wasn’t even biologically his! (His wife cheated, and he didn’t find out until well after they’d emotionally bonded.)
yep. the difference is, when women have been disadvantaged they tend to create spaces and pathways to talk about or change it. unfortunately a lot of men tend to isolate, even though they are not alone. then when they see something about a women receiving help through programs created by women for women their feelings of being abandoned by the system come up again. it’s just another way that toxic masculinity hurts everyone. the fix for that is of course feminism, but it’s a pretty massive barrier for most men to accept that.
Men don’t always isolate by choice. There’s a large cultural aversion to creating and sustaining male-only spaces, and that aversion comes from all sectors.
Every college campus has a women’s club but if you try making a men’s club you’ll probably get reprimanded.
then I guess I’m not sure what you’re really talking about then.
it goes back to my original point though. if you feel there should be those spaces, no one is stopping you from making them. there were a few subreddits I used to browse (maybe it was mensrights or menslib or something similar) that was super respectful and held genuinely helpful and important conversations about the issues men face. trust me, absolutely no one will stop you from making those spaces. if those spaces you’re trying to create aren’t respectful, then yes I imagine people might not like that.
I was referring to IRL safe spaces and support groups.
Making men’s spaces online specifically has the dual problem of being attacked by both misogynists and radical feminists. It’s a lot of work and a lot of hate to deal with, so they don’t pop up a lot. But yes, they do exist, there’s a semi-active menslib community on lemmy for example. I think that one veers way too heavily into the “us men are really awful aren’t we?” feminist takes, personally; the reddit one was a lot better.
Man, I have been in SO MANY internet arguments where I am simultaneously arguing against a woman that yes, men have problems, while also arguing against a man that no, those problems are not worse on the whole than women have.
Back when the whole “bear in the woods” thing was going around misogynists would try to jump in and support me.
Woman: “all men are rapists”
Me: “that’s insulting and hurtful and misandrist, and also not even close to true”
Misogynist: “Yeah! And also women are heartless bitches!”
no one is saying all men are rapists. what they are saying is that the statistics are great enough that women have to be on edge around all men. I wish you would take the passion you have for arguing against a generalization and devote it towards making sure the men around you aren’t part of the issue. I say that as a trans women who has seen the issue from both sides. I understand where you’re coming from, truly, but having been socialized male I saw that every man has chances to change the people around them and 99.9% fail to do so.
you wouldn’t argue if I said all bears are dangerous, even if some will walk right up to you and let you feed them from your hand. again, you should take your anger at this turn of phrase and devote it to something that actually helps your cause.
and for the love of god, it might be time to analyze where you’re getting the news from. if you actually believe the fox news ass all men are rapists line then I dont know what to tell you, your critical thinking might just be fried.
yep it’s pretty horrible. any time gender issues are brought up there’s dozens of comments saying “what about the men” and completely missing the point
https://xkcd.com/322/
The response to “what about men” comments is, we’re already talking about men when we talk about misogyny. Misandry and misogyny are the exact same problem, strictly enforced gender roles. If you deviate, you are punished. The men that are caregivers are derided just like the women that refuse to rear children. Every other related paradigm punches down into the people who do not conform. Stoicism in men, histrionics in women.
Either is a foil for the other and it’s exactly the same bullshit.
What about the me
Get in the robot, Shinji
You can’t spell me with me.
wat
As a guy, I do recognise that men are disadvantaged in many areas and need to be put on equal footing with women-- like courts disproportionately award custody of children to mothers, regardless of how unfit the mother is to be a caregiver. But broadly speaking from my pespective, women are still at more disadvantage. I used to live in a bad part of my city for many years and have had little to no issues. However, it is a different story from women I spoke who got harrased, and another hit on the head. They said they will avoid going to the city ever again. I remember sharing the accounts of these women to other men, and the men were surprised because their experience is the complete opposite. Women are still seen as weak. And in the corporate hierarchy, men (of tall statures) disproportionately make up the board of directors and executive roles.
The court thing is not universally true. I worked in a family law firm for several years, and the practice in the courts here is to start from a baseline of equal custody and placement, and I’ve heard the same about other states. The men who lost out were the ones who wouldn’t fight, because they were convinced that the courts were biased. But hell, in one case, we got full custody and placement for a guy whose son wasn’t even biologically his! (His wife cheated, and he didn’t find out until well after they’d emotionally bonded.)
yep. the difference is, when women have been disadvantaged they tend to create spaces and pathways to talk about or change it. unfortunately a lot of men tend to isolate, even though they are not alone. then when they see something about a women receiving help through programs created by women for women their feelings of being abandoned by the system come up again. it’s just another way that toxic masculinity hurts everyone. the fix for that is of course feminism, but it’s a pretty massive barrier for most men to accept that.
Men don’t always isolate by choice. There’s a large cultural aversion to creating and sustaining male-only spaces, and that aversion comes from all sectors.
Every college campus has a women’s club but if you try making a men’s club you’ll probably get reprimanded.
every college campus has men’s clubs theyre called fraternities
yeah, thats the problem. The only mens places are altright infested shit holes. Its liftest mens places that are discouraged.
You know that’s not what I’m talking about.
then I guess I’m not sure what you’re really talking about then.
it goes back to my original point though. if you feel there should be those spaces, no one is stopping you from making them. there were a few subreddits I used to browse (maybe it was mensrights or menslib or something similar) that was super respectful and held genuinely helpful and important conversations about the issues men face. trust me, absolutely no one will stop you from making those spaces. if those spaces you’re trying to create aren’t respectful, then yes I imagine people might not like that.
I was referring to IRL safe spaces and support groups.
Making men’s spaces online specifically has the dual problem of being attacked by both misogynists and radical feminists. It’s a lot of work and a lot of hate to deal with, so they don’t pop up a lot. But yes, they do exist, there’s a semi-active menslib community on lemmy for example. I think that one veers way too heavily into the “us men are really awful aren’t we?” feminist takes, personally; the reddit one was a lot better.
Menslib always felt like a containment sub.
Man, I have been in SO MANY internet arguments where I am simultaneously arguing against a woman that yes, men have problems, while also arguing against a man that no, those problems are not worse on the whole than women have.
Back when the whole “bear in the woods” thing was going around misogynists would try to jump in and support me.
Woman: “all men are rapists”
Me: “that’s insulting and hurtful and misandrist, and also not even close to true”
Misogynist: “Yeah! And also women are heartless bitches!”
Me: “I don’t remember asking YOU a goddamn thing”
no one is saying all men are rapists. what they are saying is that the statistics are great enough that women have to be on edge around all men. I wish you would take the passion you have for arguing against a generalization and devote it towards making sure the men around you aren’t part of the issue. I say that as a trans women who has seen the issue from both sides. I understand where you’re coming from, truly, but having been socialized male I saw that every man has chances to change the people around them and 99.9% fail to do so.
You know that’s not true.
you wouldn’t argue if I said all bears are dangerous, even if some will walk right up to you and let you feed them from your hand. again, you should take your anger at this turn of phrase and devote it to something that actually helps your cause.
and for the love of god, it might be time to analyze where you’re getting the news from. if you actually believe the fox news ass all men are rapists line then I dont know what to tell you, your critical thinking might just be fried.
I heard that first-hand from women on this site.
Yeah no shit, that’s the point.
Proceeds to say ALMOST all men to the level that ALL women are afraid of them.
Well, what do you want done?
deleted by creator
What about them