No. Before the industrial revolution participating in art wasn’t something you did to make money, it was a prerequisite to a full human existence.
Why say something that is so easily disproven. In ancient Greece, artists were paid by the government to build temples and other public buildings in Athens. In the Middle Ages and Renaissance, works of art were commissioned by patrons and made to order. There are tons of examples of people doing it for money and as their sole job. You are %100 wrong here. Like without a doubt.
It calls into question everything else you’ve said and how honest you’re being. My take away from this comment is either you’re lying or ignorant on the topic. Either way you don’t seem able to have this conversation. Either way I’ll address your points. But I’m not interested in a conversation where the person on the other side is presenting false statements like facts and arguing in bad faith. I can debate conflicting opinions all day. But your need to toss in ad-hominem attacks, calling me evil because I disagree, and present false statements further undermines your stance. You are not interested in a discussion, you are interested in yelling at and insulting someone about why you think they’re wrong. That is so next-level close-minded.
Art isn’t a job art is humanity. Art isn’t pointless, art is the point.
Cool, and how does that person making art eat? We live in a world where food costs money. Hell, art supplies cost money. As much as you want money not to matter, it does. You sound privileged af after reading your whole response, honestly.
Look into the concept of commodification. You’ll learn a lot
Yes, I learned about this way back in college. It’s not some new or crazy idea. It’s not even a bad idea, it has help society throughout many points in history.
I’m saying that people shouldn’t “be able to live” off of art the same way they shouldn’t “be able to live” off breathing and further.
Art is something you invest time and money and resources into. Breathing is not. This doesn’t make any sense. I can breathe while working a 9-5.
I am ignoring the ripple effects on people’s lives because those effects only hit them as far as they have allowed themselves to participate in the selling off of their humanity.
Just writing off tons of people because they are doing what they ned to survive? Really? And you call me evil?
Well, that is extremely close-minded. Lets do a little thinking… Without IP, big pharma won’t be interested in investing millions into a new vaccine, so I guess everyone who dies from the lack of that vaccine is their own fault because they sold their soul. Or you spent your life on your masterpiece of a book and want to make money off your life’s work, because you know, you want to eat and want money to live and enjoy life.
And no. It doesn’t extend to free speech because free speech isn’t an argument solely used to prop up a system that shouldn’t have ever existed at all.
Have you never seen politicians? Have you ever read a history book? Words and hate speech, covered by freedom of speech, has lead to many deaths. But I guess they don’t matter somehow.
Art is not pointless, but it shouldn’t be something you buy or sell. Many things we buy or sell today are the same. Art is not unique.
But I’m sure the artist wants a house to live in. Who is making that house? They want to eat. How are they getting that food. You seem to live in a fantasy land where everyone has unlimited time and money to just create and be happy with creating, no bills, no real world to worry about.
But the argument that an artist in the Netherlands keeping their job because otherwise they’ll starve is a justification for a child in Sierra Leone dying of tuberculosis when the person paying for the art has the ability to give the artist food and the child medicine is evil. And make no mistake, that person is you.
Sure, call me evil because I can see the harm it will do. That’s easier than having to think about what I said and consider the fact you might be wrong. But if I’m evil then you are the literal devil. That kid who wants that tuberculosis medicine, how do you think we got that medicine? A company invested millions to research it. So when the next disease comes around and it’s killing millions and no one is willing to just burn millions to find a cure because they have no IP, those deaths will be because of people like you. You have this childish mindset that after IP is gone everyone will magically have meds in their hands and everything will be perfect. No, you’re just as dumb as you are evil. New diseases will come up, no one will invest in curing them because they will lose money, and people will die. The difference between me and you is I can see more than 1 month into the future on how this would effect things.
IP abolition is one single part of a much larger reform we need, and anyone who is arguing against it is missing the forest for the trees. That is my argument.
I agree we need reform. But I would say anyone arguing that we don’t need IP is naive. They benefit from it every day while saying it should be destroyed. Which now that I think of it sounds like every republican. Not calling you one, just funny how that works out. No surprise that people with money are the ones wanting it gone. Ever think why the rich want this? Is it because you think they’re trying to be good people? Or maybe, just maybe, they realize how they will get even more money and power while selling a fantasy that people eat up. This is just like how people eat up the idea of tariffs without even understanding what they are. That’s you.
Wanting artists to be able to be paid for their work obfuscates the much larger, actually important issue that they’ll starve in our society without their art. That is evil.
Yes, they shouldn’t have to do art to survive. But your solution would just kill art all together. Because a system is broken is not a reason to remove it entirely, it’s a reason to fix it. You just seem to have this pipe dream of a world where everyone can just do art whenever for free and no one ever has to worry about money. That sounds great, but it’s a fantasy. I live in reality, please join me.
Sure, call me evil because I can see the harm it will do. That’s easier than having to think about what I said and consider the fact you might be wrong. But if I’m evil then you are the literal devil. That kid who wants that tuberculosis medicine, how do you think we got that medicine? A company invested millions to research it. So when the next disease comes around and it’s killing millions and no one is willing to just burn millions to find a cure because they have no IP, those deaths will be because of people like you. You have this childish mindset that after IP is gone everyone will magically have meds in their hands and everything will be perfect. No, you’re just as dumb as you are evil. New diseases will come up, no one will invest in curing them because they will lose money, and people will die. The difference between me and you is I can see more than 1 month into the future on how this would effect things.
Prove it cunt. Show me a single fucking time in all of human history where people didn’t try to cure disease because they couldn’t make money. This is exactly what I’m talking about. You buy dumb shit like this hook line and sinker. You’re an idiot who thinks they’re smart and it’s killing children. There is absolutely zero evidence proving anything about IP is responsible for any disease cure. There are no actual studies proving it because it is an absolutely ridiculous proposition to say altruism doesn’t exist. But you’re so fucking braindead at this point you actually believe it
No. IP does not improve the healthcare system in any way. Spreading these lies is why I called you evil. Because they’re the reason children are dying. You’re correct I am also evil. Our body counts are identical. I just have the human decency to feel shame about it.
And there it is! Finally! You entered a discussion of theory: a discussion on what the ideal is. A discussion where no one is talking anything about the mechanics of getting there and you decided to completely ignore that and start talking about “compromises” and “reality” as though it made you smart to completely miss the discussion actually taking place.
No, I will not “join you in reality” (i.e. Talk about policy) because we are not discussing policy, we are discussing theory. That is what was posted, that is what everyone around you is talking about.
The question posed is “what should be?” You don’t get to pretend that’s a discussion of what is and walk away like you made a point.
Also, no shit the ancient Greeks paid for art. I wasn’t making a claim about the Greeks. I said before the industrial revolution as in “just before the industrial revolution” and no, even then it wasn’t perfect. But both that and the Greek system was a completely different beast to what we have today and you know it!
Stop being a smug asshole and actually engage with the discussion or fuck off. Nothing you are saying is relevant to the actual discussion. I’m advocating for a completely different social structure and you’re saying “but that wouldn’t work under our current system”! It’s not a compelling argument, it’s the whining of a child who is choosing not to comprehend what’s being said because it makes you uncomfy
Why say something that is so easily disproven. In ancient Greece, artists were paid by the government to build temples and other public buildings in Athens. In the Middle Ages and Renaissance, works of art were commissioned by patrons and made to order. There are tons of examples of people doing it for money and as their sole job. You are %100 wrong here. Like without a doubt.
It calls into question everything else you’ve said and how honest you’re being. My take away from this comment is either you’re lying or ignorant on the topic. Either way you don’t seem able to have this conversation. Either way I’ll address your points. But I’m not interested in a conversation where the person on the other side is presenting false statements like facts and arguing in bad faith. I can debate conflicting opinions all day. But your need to toss in ad-hominem attacks, calling me evil because I disagree, and present false statements further undermines your stance. You are not interested in a discussion, you are interested in yelling at and insulting someone about why you think they’re wrong. That is so next-level close-minded.
Cool, and how does that person making art eat? We live in a world where food costs money. Hell, art supplies cost money. As much as you want money not to matter, it does. You sound privileged af after reading your whole response, honestly.
Yes, I learned about this way back in college. It’s not some new or crazy idea. It’s not even a bad idea, it has help society throughout many points in history.
Art is something you invest time and money and resources into. Breathing is not. This doesn’t make any sense. I can breathe while working a 9-5.
Just writing off tons of people because they are doing what they ned to survive? Really? And you call me evil?
Well, that is extremely close-minded. Lets do a little thinking… Without IP, big pharma won’t be interested in investing millions into a new vaccine, so I guess everyone who dies from the lack of that vaccine is their own fault because they sold their soul. Or you spent your life on your masterpiece of a book and want to make money off your life’s work, because you know, you want to eat and want money to live and enjoy life.
Have you never seen politicians? Have you ever read a history book? Words and hate speech, covered by freedom of speech, has lead to many deaths. But I guess they don’t matter somehow.
But I’m sure the artist wants a house to live in. Who is making that house? They want to eat. How are they getting that food. You seem to live in a fantasy land where everyone has unlimited time and money to just create and be happy with creating, no bills, no real world to worry about.
Sure, call me evil because I can see the harm it will do. That’s easier than having to think about what I said and consider the fact you might be wrong. But if I’m evil then you are the literal devil. That kid who wants that tuberculosis medicine, how do you think we got that medicine? A company invested millions to research it. So when the next disease comes around and it’s killing millions and no one is willing to just burn millions to find a cure because they have no IP, those deaths will be because of people like you. You have this childish mindset that after IP is gone everyone will magically have meds in their hands and everything will be perfect. No, you’re just as dumb as you are evil. New diseases will come up, no one will invest in curing them because they will lose money, and people will die. The difference between me and you is I can see more than 1 month into the future on how this would effect things.
I agree we need reform. But I would say anyone arguing that we don’t need IP is naive. They benefit from it every day while saying it should be destroyed. Which now that I think of it sounds like every republican. Not calling you one, just funny how that works out. No surprise that people with money are the ones wanting it gone. Ever think why the rich want this? Is it because you think they’re trying to be good people? Or maybe, just maybe, they realize how they will get even more money and power while selling a fantasy that people eat up. This is just like how people eat up the idea of tariffs without even understanding what they are. That’s you.
Yes, they shouldn’t have to do art to survive. But your solution would just kill art all together. Because a system is broken is not a reason to remove it entirely, it’s a reason to fix it. You just seem to have this pipe dream of a world where everyone can just do art whenever for free and no one ever has to worry about money. That sounds great, but it’s a fantasy. I live in reality, please join me.
Prove it cunt. Show me a single fucking time in all of human history where people didn’t try to cure disease because they couldn’t make money. This is exactly what I’m talking about. You buy dumb shit like this hook line and sinker. You’re an idiot who thinks they’re smart and it’s killing children. There is absolutely zero evidence proving anything about IP is responsible for any disease cure. There are no actual studies proving it because it is an absolutely ridiculous proposition to say altruism doesn’t exist. But you’re so fucking braindead at this point you actually believe it
No. IP does not improve the healthcare system in any way. Spreading these lies is why I called you evil. Because they’re the reason children are dying. You’re correct I am also evil. Our body counts are identical. I just have the human decency to feel shame about it.
And there it is! Finally! You entered a discussion of theory: a discussion on what the ideal is. A discussion where no one is talking anything about the mechanics of getting there and you decided to completely ignore that and start talking about “compromises” and “reality” as though it made you smart to completely miss the discussion actually taking place.
No, I will not “join you in reality” (i.e. Talk about policy) because we are not discussing policy, we are discussing theory. That is what was posted, that is what everyone around you is talking about.
The question posed is “what should be?” You don’t get to pretend that’s a discussion of what is and walk away like you made a point.
Also, no shit the ancient Greeks paid for art. I wasn’t making a claim about the Greeks. I said before the industrial revolution as in “just before the industrial revolution” and no, even then it wasn’t perfect. But both that and the Greek system was a completely different beast to what we have today and you know it!
Stop being a smug asshole and actually engage with the discussion or fuck off. Nothing you are saying is relevant to the actual discussion. I’m advocating for a completely different social structure and you’re saying “but that wouldn’t work under our current system”! It’s not a compelling argument, it’s the whining of a child who is choosing not to comprehend what’s being said because it makes you uncomfy