The indoctrination of windows is extreme. Windows is just as hard as linux, harder even with all the layers of obscurity.

And yet… linux is hard, and users decry RTFM as “not growing the userbase”

  • heavyboots@lemmy.ml
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    2 days ago

    I mean, this is why I have been using Mac since 1984. It’s not hard and it pretty much just gets out of the way and lets you do stuff. (Caveat: Gaming. It really doesn’t let you do gaming without jumping through a number of hoops.)

    The fact Time Machine immediately hassles you to set up a drive and back up your stuff is so great for the average user. I’m sure both Linux and (I know) Windows have something similar, but it’s not immediately active and trying to get you to save your stuff. TM has saved my bacon numerous times and I love that it’s one click and a fresh HD for users to get it set up.

    • The Hobbyist@lemmy.zip
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      1 day ago

      I will always remember my first experience using MacOS: I am comfortable with computers and a relative needed help with their recently purchased macbook. I had plugged in a USB stick to transfer some files and was done and wanted to eject it. I spent way too much time than I care to admit, trying all possible options, right-clicks, settings, everything imaginable, to eject the damn thing.

      It was impossible to me to find the simplest operation with a USB stick, something required to operate it. I capitulated and looked online. The solution? I had to drag and drop the USB stick icon into the trashcan!?!?!?

      To this day, I will never understand the absolute ridicule of this and I will never comprehend how anyone is expected to figure it out on their own. And this is from the OS touted as the most user friendly and intuitive. Go figure.

      Edit: this was a long while back, no idea how it is nowadays.

      • heavyboots@lemmy.ml
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        2 days ago

        Yeah they have an Eject symbol by it multiple places, plus the trash can turns into an eject icon, plus of course the menu item you can use under the File menu now, so it’s pretty well covered. Especially compared to the (to me) fairly inexplicable Windows “USB” blob that appears in the controls area to let your right-click and eject. But that was a definitely a thing back in OS 9 and prior, haha. I have no idea whose idea it was to make that the disk eject interface. I’ve heard the same rant multiple times for sure.

      • Rikudou_Sage@lemmings.world
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        1 day ago

        Anyone who uses Finder as a file manager is a masochist. That’s the worst file manager I’ve ever used. And that includes shitty Android file manager which have more ads than file managing capabilities.

    • Russ@bitforged.space
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      1 day ago

      I’m sure both Linux and (I know) Windows have something similar, but it’s not immediately active and trying to get you to save your stuff.

      Funnily enough, Microsoft does try to do this with OneDrive, prompting you during OOBE. A lot of the tech space demonizes Microsoft for exactly this.

      Which to be fair, a lot of that does come down to legitimate concerns (such as being far to eager about this even when you say “No” and not offering a “don’t ask me again”) - but at the same time, some of the push (likely) comes from a good place of trying to set up backups for users.

      It’s definitely not completely altruistic - companies hardly ever are (cough cough, forced online accounts). But I also don’t think it’s as black and white as “Microsoft is bad for this”. And though even I complain about this, the same goes for Microsoft being aggressive with Windows Updates.

      • heavyboots@lemmy.ml
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        18 hours ago

        AFAIK, OneDrive is very different from Time Machine? More similar to iCloud? It’s not a backup, it’s just an online sync.

        The MS equivalent of Time Machine is File History, I believe. (Ie, a versioned backup that fills the hard drive until it’s out of space and then starts deleting the oldest copies of files.)

        • panicnow@lemmy.world
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          17 hours ago

          OneDrive does offer restoration of individual file versions or even the entire OneDrive contents (for things like ransomware attacks). Details are here

          I think OneDrive is a pretty good (but paid) backup utility especially for non-technical people. There are a lot of things that I could nitpick on, but for some of the older people (octogenarians) that I am the family support for, I set it up and anytime I interact with their computer I click on OneDrive to ensure it is replicating. I very occasionally have seen a single file not replicating, but never have I seen it fail completely. These people previous had NO backups of any kind.

          I use it myself as an additional backup location, but not in the way most people would.

          • heavyboots@lemmy.ml
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            15 hours ago

            Yeah, I just meant that I think that you can’t roll back to a version 3 weeks ago kind of thing, which is what Time Machine and File History do. Synchronization vs a true versioned backup.

        • Russ@bitforged.space
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          18 hours ago

          Ah, perhaps that’s what I’m missing. I do have a Windows install for playing the odd games every now and then that don’t support Linux, but I don’t actually back anything up since all of my games are via Steam and utilize Steam’s cloud saves for syncing (and these games are usually multiplayer online-only games and wouldn’t need syncing anyways). I know that when I originally used macOS (back during “Mountain Lion” I believe?) Time Machine did utilize an external disk, but I would’ve thought these days it also leveraged iCloud Drive.

          I did know about Windows’ File History mechanism, but I also made the assumption that Windows tech would integrate with OneDrive since they’re made by the same company… doing a quick search though seems to indicate that it “should” be possible, but actually getting it to do so definitely doesn’t have a simple toggle like you’d expect.

          That’s what I get for speaking about features I’ve not used myself, whoops!

          • heavyboots@lemmy.ml
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            15 hours ago

            In some ways it’s just a technical difference (syncing vs backup “snapshots”). It’s totally true that if you throw away a file out of iCloud or OneDrive, there is (I believe) a window of opportunity to get it back out of the cloud.

            But I also don’t think either let you get back a version from 3 weeks ago, for example, which is where versioned backups like Time Machine and File History come in.

            Honestly, it is good to have both enabled for various reasons, not the least of which is just having a copy of your files offsite.

    • highball@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      Shocker, you bought hardware with a compatible OS. That’s the dudes problem. He didn’t buy hardware compatible for Linux. 1984, so I know you are well aware, you have to buy hardware that is compatible with your OS.

        • highball@lemmy.world
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          16 hours ago

          Nonsense. It has always been listed on the box if there is support. Same as all the other OSes. How many times have you bought random used Windows hardware to see if you could install MacOS on it? Nobody buys random Mac hardware to see if they can install Windows on it. There were Hackintosh’s but when some didn’t work out, nobody blamed MacOS. Back when Windows ran poorly on Intel Macs because of poor support, Nobody blamed Windows. It’s a double standard.

          • heavyboots@lemmy.ml
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            15 hours ago

            It has always been listed on the box if there is support.

            Say what, now? I have yet to run into a Linux site that casually lists what all hardware is compatible before you start trying to install stuff. The same with Windows, for that matter, although knowing Microsoft there may be a database squirreled away somewhere.