Summary
Former CIA Director Leon Panetta warned that Trump’s return to the White House could embolden Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, giving him a “blank check” in the Middle East and increasing the risk of war with Iran.
Panetta expressed concern that Trump would support Netanyahu’s aggressive stance against Iran without restraint, potentially worsening regional instability.
Panetta also predicted Trump might allow Russia to retain parts of Ukraine if he returns to office, though he doubted Trump’s negotiation skills.
He criticized Trump’s approach to foreign policy, suggesting Trump would be inclined to “capitulate” to authoritarian leaders, which may not sit well with some Republicans.
Congratulations, idealists. You definitely stopped the genocide by refusing to vote for Harris and urging others to do likewise. A+ job.
I truly cannot grasp how uninformed one has to be to claim to be for Palestinians but think helping Trump’s odds was strategically better. Such profound ignorance is on par with maga, themselves.
On another note I want absolutely nothing to do with Mehdi Hasan. I supported him for quite some time but he got tunnel vision to such a degree he ended up thinking completely irrationally and contributing to the problem. He’s venturing into Jill Stein territory for me.
thats okay, you just need to look at harris and the dnc for your answers. apparently streams of articles, local representatives speaking up, members of the diplomatic core speaking out and they amazing decided that ‘yes, genocide is the answer to our electoral struggles’
it is definitely baffling in a tight race tossing 25 electoral points in the trash could be construed as a ‘good decision for palestinians.’ but here we are and thats what they did.
Now the world is going to suffer because of their hubris. enjoy. maybe next time tell your candidate to get a backbone to do the right thing and you need to grasp human nature.
go check out democracynow gaza section. maybe you can get some perspective on exactly how kamala/biden and general media have been gaslighting you. Everytime a hamas leader was murdered and harris would say ‘now we can achieve a ceasefire’ she was gaslighting you. a ceasefire with the release of hostages had been agreed to by hamas for months since may. Every time she said she would work towards a ceasefire, she was gaslighting you.
the palestinians were fucked no matter who won.
But harris had the option to potentially win if she was willing to:
- throw biden under the bus policy wise.
- commit to upholding american laws w/ respect to isreal.
- commit to keeping kahn as head of FTC.
- commit and campaign on actually fighting corporations.
but noooo. its the voters fault for harris being absolutely dog shit both morally and policy wise.
Binary choice.
Either Trump or Harris would win.
Harris better on literally every issue from climate change and LGBTQ+ rights and Women’s rights, to Ukraine and yes even marginally Gaza, itself.
We had a choice to help one or the other, and we chose the guy who is worse on every one of these issues. The GOP and Putin thank you for your service.
At the end of the day, these uncommitted voters contributed to the problem because they lacked the capacity to think strategically in their voting and lacking comprehension of the FPTP voting system we have. They seem to lack the fundamental understanding that there was a competing electoral group that Harris needed to obtain, like the large Jewish community in these key battleground states like Pennsylvania. Damned if she did; damned if she didn’t.
Golly, it’s almost like there’s a reason why Musk dumped $75 million dollars in attack ads with directly opposite messages, targeting both Muslim and Jewish communities in Pennsylvania at the same time? Were you aware of this? Evidently not.
So while Harris pushed for more aid into Gaza, sought a two-state solution, sought a permanent ceasefire, tell me… What did Trump promise? Oh yeah… “Finish the job.” Again, good luck.
No, I’m about 10 years ahead of you with the Democracy Now and 3rd party crap. I’ve been down that road long ago, my friend. Hopefully one day you’ll wise up, too.
removed by mod
Your argument — hiding behind a counter-factual impossible to prove — is an old one. Cap it off with a Post Hoc fallacy, why don’t ya?
Educate yourself on the basic fallacies, and perhaps you’ll gain the prerequisite critical-thinking skills to have a good faith discussion.
(But boy, Palestinians are going to be ever so grateful for the uncommitted vote for the next 4+ years, LOL)
“They” weren’t persons holding “real” opinions, I’m afraid. Just as the russians calling for “russophobia” 2 months prior to the special genocidal operation
Oh he’ll help end the genocide alright. You can’t genocide a people that’s already wiped off the planet.
ukraine is gonna get ‘helped’ similarly. putin will have a free pass once the u.s. aid stops. i don’t think the other nato countries or the e.u. can cover that, especially long-term.
I hope as soon as US aid stops, they launch everything they have at major Russian cities.
right? they’re holding back for conditional western aid. as soon as the aid ends those conditions mean nothing.
Why would this be different from right now? If they could feasibly end the war they way, they absolutely would, and id absolutely condone it.
Because as far as I know Ukrain hasn’t been committing war crimes with western supplied arms.
I’ve always said they could ignore all conditions by saying there’s Hamas tunnels under the Kremlin.
I’m pretty sure it’s the most documented war of all time by now, we’d know. The Israeli war is much younger and it was readily apparent when the war crimes started. I’m pretty sure that’s why a lot of countries like to go dark from the internet when they kick up their bullshit.
Y’all are thinking pretty small, Putin won’t just have a free pass about us aid, Putin has a pass to our entire structure. Their military might be shit but their Intel apparatus is not at all.
removed by mod
I think the EU will change. If Ukraine falls, territory grabs from Poland, Finland and Hungary are next. Those are actually EU constituents.
Hungary will not leave the EU btw. Orbán’s days are numbered, what with the Tisza overflowing.
yeah shame that. maybe kamala should of thought about that before committing herself to a genocide joe allowed.
I’m expecting mega stupid bullshit like Trump lifting sanctions in exchange for Russia standing down so Trump can send American planes over and show the world we have the biggest and best bombs, while his megadonors line up for Russian contracts and celebrate
Okay my man look at the margins. The anti-genocide people could’ve all voted and it wouldn’t have flipped a single state outside of Michigan. And the thing is: Harris lost before Michigan even finished counting. So yeah, you’re barking up the wrong tree here.
The fact that the person representing the choice to act is also giving a WTF, dude face is hilarious.
The anti-genocide people could’ve all voted and it wouldn’t have flipped a single state outside of Michigan.
See, if you’d said the anti-genocide people who protest voted could’ve all voted for Harris, you might’ve had a point.
But turnout in this election for the Democratic candidate was significantly decreased, and an uncertain number of those were anti-genocide.
Abstaining gave Trump the presidency. Abstaining for what reason varies, but Gaza was clearly an issue for some to stay home.
Abstaining gave Trump the presidency. Abstaining for what reason varies, but Gaza was clearly an issue for some to stay home.
Yes, and I’m saying that Gaza wasn’t an issue for enough people to matter. Harris needed Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan to win, and while I can see pro-Palestinian votes swinging Michigan I simply doubt there were enough of them in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin to matter. If you think otherwise, then you have more faith in the American people than me I guess.
This is one of the excuses they are giving rather than accept any culpability whatsoever. “Even if we voted for Harris, Trump would still have won.”
And in the same breath, they’ll say it’s the Dems fault for supporting genocide.
“Or votes wouldn’t have made a difference in the outcome, but Dems lost because they didn’t do the thing that would have supposedly gotten our vote”
Yep.
That’s exactly what’s happening.
removed by mod
Because you’re being intentionally dense. their personal votes are what they are talking about. These are the people who fucking showed up and voted regardless of the shit campaign.
The genocide definitely cost harris Wisconsin and Michigan. 25 points right there.
For example: My state harris won, my vote third party jill, would have in no way changed the outcome here. As I’ve been informing everyone for two months. But harris is missing 20 million votes biden received. Where are they?
Why did these individuals not vote for harris?
maybe because shes been gaslighting america on live tv for years during the biden admin? Over biden’s mental acuity, over what was going on in gaza etc.
Maybe because she didn’t put forward a single decent economic policy to counter the absolutely shit perception of the biden admin?
Maybe, just maybe, people were so disgusted with her continued support of a genocide they fucking stayed home instead of voting for a gaslighting trash heap of a campaign?
You dweebs like to crow about the electorate having short memories. but the reality is that they actually have long memories and you can’t do the shit biden and harris have done and expect people to show up for you without a huge fucking carrot.
And you wouldn’t even contemplate that ‘hey the arabs just want us to stop murdering their friends and family. huh. maybe we should do that?’
So yes, continue thinking those like myself are at fault. I’m fine with your scorn. I don’t particularly care if you dislike me. Just remember that your support for a genocide just cost you multiple election cycles in Michigan and Wisconsin. THAT community is unlikely to forget what you, biden, harris, and the DNC did to them.
Now if anyone wants resources to look into anything I’ve said here and are open to working towards replacing the DNC feel free to reach out. always happy to connect with people who actually give a shit.
Culpability for what? Nothing is forcing Biden and Harris to support such atrocities. Nothing forced them to abandon the left and the working class and cater to the right at every opportunity. If you want to point fingers, why don’t you start with the actual candidate leading the campaign, who consciously made all these decisions, and the party leaders backing her?
Was 2016 not enough of a wakeup call? Was the near loss in 2020 not a wakeup call? Here we are in 2024, repeating the same old song and dance, and people are still digging their heels in thinking that moving further and further right is a winning strategy for the Democrats and it’s everyone else’s fault when it doesn’t work again and again and again.
Maybe the party leadership will finally pull their heads out of their asses after this, but I won’t hold my breath. They’ll probably pick someone like Joe Manchin to run in 2028 and then wonder where it all went wrong once again when he loses to someone like Ted Cruz or Ron DeSantis.
Culpability for you supporting the atrocities.
That’s right, you. By helping get Trump into office since you and others refused to “vote for genocide,” you have let the guy who told Netanyahu to “finish the job” on national TV to take office. The same guy who is going to start more genocides- of brown and queer people- in the U.S.
That is your fault because you were too ideologically self-righteous to do anything about it.
I don’t want to hear any American voter who didn’t vote for Harris to claim anything about being anti-genocide. Because it’s a fucking lie. You can lie to yourself all you want, but if you lie about that to me, I’m calling you out.
Culpability for what?
Maybe handing all three branches of a nuclear power to literal fascists?
Maybe the party leadership will finally pull their heads out of their asses after this, but I won’t hold my breath. They’ll probably pick someone like Joe Manchin to run in 2028…
You really don’t grasp what has has transpired here do you? You think that those of us who have been ringing the alarms are just overreacting and it’s going to be business as usual?
Maybe handing all three branches of a nuclear power to literal fascists?
I did that? The Supreme Court was already under control of the fascists because the DNC rolled over and allowed the Republicans to take the nomination away from Obama a year before the election. They again rolled over and allowed Trump to nominate yet another justice weeks before the election. In my district we voted in a blue congresswoman and had no senators on the ballot. Are these losses around the rest of the country my fault, too, or the fault of the people running those campaigns?
You really don’t grasp what has has transpired here do you? You think that those of us who have been ringing the alarms are just overreacting and it’s going to be business as usual?
How exactly were you ringing the alarm bells? By telling everyone to vote for Biden and then Harris? By telling everyone the obvious about what a piece of shit Trump is? How did that work out for us?
I’ve been ringing the alarm bells about how terrible the Dems have been performing and all the shitty policy they’ve been supporting (genocide, the rich, the right) and got so much pushback. I’ve been called a shill, a republican in disguise, an idiot, and everything else under the sun and look how things turned out for us. You supported a losing strategy from a party full of neoliberals that doesn’t give two shits about you or anyone else and now you want to point fingers. As I said before, how could it not be more clear after losing or nearly losing this many elections in a row that the DNC and their leadership is the problem?
This not to mention down-ballot congressional races.
Gave them everything they fucking wanted. This country is cooked.
The outcome of the election doesn’t change the fact that 18% of voters wasted their vote on a Russian plant.
In the end it didn’t matter but it does matter that they knew the election was close and their protest vote could’ve very well been the deciding factor. They decided to make the statement despite the risk of having someone much worse winning. Now, go plead your cause to Trump.
removed by mod
Please give me the numbers of these in every swing state along with how they were determined.
Michigan and Wisconsin, two states representing 25 pts. If you don’t look at the fucking margins in a neck and neck race, yeah you fucking lose. Harris failed to make any changes to policy throughout the campaign despite being underwater the entire fucking time.
This loss is entirely on her and the DNC.
There is no way for you, or anyone, to know how many people abstained from voting over any one issue, 🤡
Yep the Dems are accountable for nothing, but peaple who refused to vote for genociders are accountable for Trump’s action sure. Keep blindly following your party.
Maybe there’s plenty of accountability to go around and you deserve some too.
Also, please tell me which party is my party. I would like to know which political party I am registered with, please. With evidence, of course. Unless you’re trolling a moderator.
I am accountable for what ? For what the new president might do (when i clearly didn’t vote for him). You re litteraly criticising peaple for not voting Harris, stop the Whataboutisme. “Unless you’re trolling a moderator” LOL
You re litteraly criticising peaple for not voting Harris
Exactly.
Now you have one more chance to tell me what political party I am registered with and I expect evidence. Trolling is not allowed here.
The alternative is to admit you don’t actually know and just assumed I was a member of the Democratic party. Then you were just being uncivil, but I will let that go.
removed by mod
removed by mod
What specifically did I do? Please lay it out with evidence.
Or is this more trolling?
removed by mod
removed by mod
Then he will be held to the same account Harris was.
What are you even talking about? Harris is the Vice President. Exactly what do you think her job responsibilities and powers are?
She said she would not have changed a single decision that was made during the Biden administration. Biden said that she was in 100% agreement with every decision made. Which means she agreed to the current conditions
I really hope you find solace in the idea that Harris and Trump would be equally bad for the world as Trump throws America into the garbage and tries to take the planet with it.
Do you have any idea how much CO2 biden’s proxy wars have dumped into the atmosphere? How many chip manufacturers were given environmental exemptions for chip manufacturing? The actions from Democrats mirror the actions from Republicans. The only difference is that Republicans say all of those things out loud
Again, I hope you find solace in the idea that Trump and Harris are exactly the same when things get really awful. I’m sure you’ll feel much better about yourself not voting for her.
I find solace in not allowing the continued rightward march of Democrats. Liberals are 100% to blame for our current conditions for never holding their own people accountable. At their current pace the DNC will be on par with people like McConnell in a few years.
True. The Democrats will not continue their rightward march now that America will be a one-party fascist dictatorship because they are no longer necessary. Congratulations. You won. I hope your papers are in order when they ask for them.
Block him, Squid. He’s doing this in every thread and you need to put this energy towards more important things.
removed by mod
Dude, you really need to just move on from Biden and Kamala. They lost and aren’t going to be in office much longer. Trump is the threat.
And once he takes office, he will get the same type of scrutiny from me that Biden and Harris has. until January 20th the focus is on Biden and Harris.
Tell us you don’t know what a VP does without telling us you don’t know what a VP does.
Stoppig the genocide… Who started it?
Israel. What’s your point?
Cool so Trump won’t be responsible for stopping the genocide either. Everything falls on Israel.
No shit. That has nothing to do with this discussion.
Why did you bring up the genocide if you do not believe the American president has any responsibility for it? Biden has funded 70% of the cost of the genocide.
Gosh I don’t know, maybe because a huge number of people decided to allow in a rapist fascist dictator who is going to conduct his own two genocides domestically, thinking their protest vote or their protest abstention would totally teach the Democrats a lesson regarding Israel?
Have you spent the week in a cave?
What did you do to stop the genocide?
I’ve been working with Jewish Voice for Peace for a year now. What about you?
removed by mod
We didn’t allow anything. harris failed to win our votes. direct your ire correctly. I’ve been telling you this for 2 months. you’re still failing at basic reasoning on how voting works.
Palestinians are dead either way unless harris committed to stopping israel. and she wouldn’t. she threw out the 25 electoral points Michigian and Wisconsin represent as a result. She failed to run a campaign on policies that would win her the election.
We don’t owe you dweebs anything. You repeatedly fail to realize that people won’t help you when you don’t help them. and the DNC hasn’t done shit for the working class or the arab community and they just fucking burnt a bridge that’ll likely be impossible to rebuild.
You want peoples support for ukraine, LGBT, etc? learn you need to build connections with others to get support. esp when you’re pet projects are also minority groups.
And a reminder: your jews for peace work is completely ineffectual when it comes to the president/congress supplying arms to israel. most of your work has ridden on the coattails of arab groups pushing their initiatives. So while stopping the settlement funding is a grand idea; by the time you managed to do it the palestinians would have already been dead or gone.
Yes, I understand that you didn’t vote to stop a genocidal dictator from getting into office because you didn’t like the only alternative.
And that’s why I blame people like you.
And I hope you enjoyed your last ever democratic election.
Fairly certain the economy was the number one issue for voters that switched parties. I have not seen the numbers on how the genocide affected voting outcomes, but the blame rests squarely on Kamala’s shoulders for running a shitty campaign.
Voters don’t owe the politicians anything.
Voters owe themselves something. But instead they decided to crash the economy, end democracy and start more genocides. Because Kamala ran a shitty campaign.
removed by mod
I love this idea that it’s all one person’s fault. I’m sure you’ll still blame her when Trump’s cops march you into a boxcar.
“It’s not my fault, I didn’t vote for Harris and allowed the U.S. to get taken over by a fascist dictator who is committing genocides. It’s her fault for making me not vote for her because of genocide!” Scream it to the guards, I’m sure they’ll be very sympathetic.
Of course, you could be a cishet Christian man, in which case, enjoy your privilege.
in which case, enjoy your privilege
…for now
I should have added ‘rich.’
removed by mod
Please read my post before you reply.
removed by mod
I totally understand that sentiment, being myself someone who voted for Harris as the better candidate, but I think the results show it wasn’t abstaining anti-genocide voters who caused her shortfall. Millions of people who voted blue in 2020 didn’t vote or in many cases actually voted red on Tuesday, way more than the few pro-Palestine abstainers likely amount to. And I doubt many ppl who care about Palestine would’ve switched and voted for Trump.
As much as I’d love a simple, singular group to blame for Tuesday’s horrible result, it’s way too early and multifaceted of an issue to do so imo. Depressingly, I think it’s moreso just uninformed voters who thought that since inflation wasn’t as bad from 2016-2019 that Trump would be better for consumer prices, and they didn’t really think about it any harder than that.
You misunderstand. I’m blaming everyone who didn’t vote for whatever reason. It was Israel for a large number of them and this story involves that, so I am pointing the finger at them in this case.
But I don’t care why someone didn’t vote. They chose to accept the possibility that they would be helping a fascist, genocidal dictator get into office by doing nothing to oppose him. Whatever reason they had was a bad one.
Oh gotcha yep totally agree
