- cross-posted to:
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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
Shared here for public benefit.
Before going to a protest, demonstrators or observers should note that their cellphones may subject them to surveillance tactics by law enforcement. If your cellphone is on and unsecured, your location can be tracked and your unencrypted communications, such as SMS, may be intercepted. Additionally, police may retrieve your messages and the content of your phone if they take custody of your phone, or later by warrant or subpoena.
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Your car’s GPS is also tracking your movements. If you have a newer car then your phone is only part of the problem.
To be specific, it’s not the GPS receiver, it’s the fact that the car may be communicating via cell network or satellite, right?
Correct. Yeah, if you have a newer car with GPS, it will likely also have built in communications to the car company.
There are benefits to older, “dumber” cars. Besides enjoying knobs and buttons 😁
Right, but most modern cars have that communication built in, because they use it to update firmware remotely. You can’t turn it off even if you wanted to. Many car companies justify it by saying it is needed to give your location to emergency services if you use their alert button.
Idk about other brands but with Mazda you can call and get them to deactivate your car’s sim. IIRC in Subarus you can just physically unplug the communication unit.
Don’t bring it?!
Also be aware that the Georgia attorney general has declared that not bringing your phone to a protest will be considered criminal intent. They’re now trying to punish people for not having their tracking devices with them.
https://georgiarecorder.com/2024/02/12/georgia-ag-claims-not-having-a-phone-makes-you-a-criminal/
This.
Go old school and bring cameras instead.
correct
If your phone is powered your location can be tracked. Secured or not: your location can always be tracked.
The rest is doubtful, always assume law enforcement has access at will.
Just don’t bring it.
doesn’t have to be powered on.
unless you can remove the battery, it should stay at home.
Source? EFF says airplane mode is sufficient per the article
so you’re going yo trust the government funded org to tell you how to not be tracked by the government?
better yet, you’re going to trust the company that actively works with the government under national defense that wants to track you to protect national defense?
no thanks. I’d rather be safe than detained.
Until I see a shred of evidence that airplane mode doesn’t disable the radios, yes, I’m going to trust the manufacturers, the EFF, and my background in EE
I tend to agree (and also an EE). Airplane mode isn’t a total panacea, though. It just disables the cellular radio. While it also disables the Wifi and Bluetooth, those can always be turned back on, even while Airplane Mode is active. A motivated state actor can absolutely track via Wifi or Bluetooth. (Possibly even NFC, but the range on that is so low that I think it would impossible to do without seeing what is tracking you).
Turning the phone off is the best solution if you want to keep rhe phone on your person. Guaranteed that all possible avenues for tracking is off, and also has the advantage that even if the phone is seized, the latest phone OSes require the passcode before doing anything at all when they first power up. Even the Police are limited in the data they can get off a phone that has just powered up and is asking for the passcode.
cool. you do you then.
I’ll keep doing whatever I need to ensure my freedom by not trusting government or corporate guidelines.
What government funding does the EFF take in?
Set your phone on top of a Roomba that has scheduled cleaning throughout the day.
Pointless, unless you leave the roomba running outdoors. Indoors you don’t have GPS coverage, and your phone is logged onto the same cell tower anyway. Might just leave it stationary at home, same outcome.
You definitely can get GPS coverage inside. It’s entirely building dependant but I’m inside right now and if I open GPS it’ll just work.
YOU DONT BRING IT.
By leaving it at home.
Buy a Burner.
Leave it at home for a protest if you care about being tracked.
Pretty much all cell phones can be tracked even when turned off.
Source? EFF says airplane mode is sufficient per the article
Could you not wrap it in thin foil to make a faraday cage? If done well it should prevent any signals for going in or out.
puts on thin foil hat
Even with a libre OS and all radios turned off? (So to use the phone as a camera and offline navigation)
yes, even with all the foss software and radios turned off.
it will still ping radio towers. the only exclusion are phones with physical switches for disabling hardware.
I feel like it could still get damaged or used as evidence in court if you get caught up in a crackdown.
Turn it off and leave it at home.
Leave it on at home.
“Your honor, as you can see from my mobile device location history, I never even left my house that day.”
Not that that’ll actually work or that they’ll care, but still…
Even better, have your tv on the whole time, so if the tv sends telemetry data that’s also linked to the phone, it’ll show you were at home the whole time.
They likely have the data to show it didn’t move at all. Eg it wasn’t on your person.
You underestimate how much of a couch potato I am. Not moving is normal lol.
Even sitting on a couch moves your phone more than simply laying on a table. They can use accelerometer data to determine how, if at all, it moved.
For that , someone mentioned a roomba or straping it to a dogs collar…
Put a harness on your pet and put it on the harness. Boom, instant spoofing.
Movement data shows that you scratch your fleas a lot, you should do something about that.
“I let my landlord borrow my car, though. He said it was important.”
Most modern devices track the phone even when it’s turned off. If you can’t remove the battery, leave it at home.
Oh, this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Find_My
You can turn that off, I’m pretty sure.
I would not be surprised if it can only be “turned off.”
When I shut the lid on my work computer I assumed it was “off” or at least inactive. My home network showed me it was continuing to “check in” throughout the night.
Closing the lid typically does sleep or hibernate, both of which can still be active. I’ve had many windows updates overnight with the lid closed.
Typical isn’t relevant in a corporate controlled image which they push automatic updates to. Whatever “typical” was can be changed with the next update push.
Sure but it could just do the default thing because it just wasn’t changed.
… Goes to a protest to support gaza, get’s phone unlocked because police is using Israeli cellebrite software…
Jesus Christ, this conversation is scary. I wish y’all good luck that none of these precautions are necessary.
As someone in a blue state where governance is sane, I’m “raw dogging it” (effing offensive slang term but now I’ve used it once in my life and can rest easy) and bringing my kids (teens). M also going to the local demonstration rather than go into the city for a big one - to some extent it’s a numbers game: ICE can’t raid them all and police aren’t legally allowed to help them
…. And hopefully my optimism is well founded
—-
Edit: huge success! Entirely peaceful. While a few cops drove by, there was no police presence. Thousands of people of all ages lining both sides of main st, and three sides of our town common. Constant honking from supporters driving by. It was very inspirational. I’m proud of my fellow citizens and hope our voice for restoring sanity and democracy is heard.
For those pessimists,a bit more context why I was so optimistic…… a few years back, our mayor and police were participants in a local BLM rally. Also a big part of local outrage against fascism was a city counselor getting assaulted and arrested for videoing an illegal raid on one of his constituents.
I’m happy that you felt safe in a peaceful protest, but keep in mind that stingrays can be operated from airplanes at 10,000 ft. you likely would never hear them at a noisy protest and it would be the size of a grain of rice in the sky.
I’m in one of the bluest. Our police and FBI are not “blue.” American spy forces and “committee on anti-American activities”-ass motherfuckers are not kind or just, no matter the voting tendencies of the populace.
How many decades have we seen far right terror groups overlooked for anti-capitalist leftists? The left threatens the status quo, the right fortifies it. The blue and red dichotomy is the status quo. The democrats support the genocide in Palestine. Going against that status quo makes you not safe from government crackdowns, the party in power is completely irrelevant.
If your “blue leaders” are any good, they enforce psych profiles on police recruitment that ensures you don’t have a force full of racist authoritarian law in their own hands radicals, at least for the forces they control - feds may be a different story.
remind me again, how’s that working out in LA?
Mixed results. Implying: blue leadership could be doing better in that area.
Doesn’t matter of the state is blue, the police force is going to do everything they can to fuck you anyways.
You say kids. Youve rawdogged more than once probably
Nowadays millennials and Gen Z use raw dogging to indicate going either without protection to their electronic devices, or foregoing the use of devices like on a long plane ride.
Yes, very cringey slang for going without protection. Originally from pregnancy or STDs, but now also from boredom. In my case, without the protection of a mask or leaving my wallet and phone at home. I even drove and parked in a local public garage, so would be traceable in several different ways
The fact that this conversation is even necessary is to me more scary.
I used to think the Bush era was bad. I’d gladly trade that for now.
Bush was just a goofy lil war criminal compared to this shit
Only 😏
You get a burner for the protest and give your phone to a friend or family member for the day so that it still pings towers at the usual places.
Or at home. It’s not unusual for me to spend several hours at home on a Saturday.
people on the internet love to talk about all these great security smart things that they will definitely never do.
leave valuables at home, wear unremarkable clothes, and write your lawyers number on your arm with a sharpie.
personally i bring my phone and a leica. ive been to jail for protesting before and in my current situation i just don’t care.
Its important because you endanger not just yourself but anyone who is possibly linked through your activities. Your actions are your own responsibility. If you are able to protect others in this Situations you should. And i hope you only document voilation oft power with your leika and not others protesting.
i don’t know what you just said but the whole point of a protest is to disrupt in order to be seen.
I went to jail for trespassing. same as everyone else. its bullshit.
I was thinking of a different kind of protest then. Were im from this would involve civil unrest. Our cops arent as trigger happy like yours i guess.
Leica digital or chemical film?
m10p with a 28mm and a flash
Leave it at home.
Or get a burner
And get a burner.
Yeah. And, leave the other at home. Somehow, that mutual exclusivity between devices made me write “or”. Hehe.
thats my plan. im not taking wallet or keys or anything. just a transit card.
Having an ID can help if you do get arrested. But that’s about all I carry.
Why do you need an ID? Leave it in your car if you’re driving.
I don’t think there’s a single state that requires you to actually carry documentation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes
These are the states that require you to at least verbally state your name, and only if the officer has reasonable suspicion that you have or will commit a crime.
They can ask your name. You may not have to answer.
Research your state’s law on this before you go. It’s in the link.
There’s legal requirements, then there’s practical dealings with officers in the field. Seems to me that these days if you’re “undocumented” you’re asking to be sent to processing which can be a quick trip to a center somewhere across the country, if that’s the mood they’re in. After you get out you can try to sue them, maybe even win, but how long before you collect your damages?
This. You’ve got to ask yourself, what your goal when interacting with law enforcement is. It it your goal to stand up for every right? Or do you want to get away for the interaction as easy as possible?
Let me give you an example of what I mean. I Denmark police can stop and ID you without a cause. You don’t have to provide an ID, but you have to state your name, address, and birthday. If you don’t, then you’ll be arrested. Our SSNs consists of birthday and a checksum. You’re not required to state your SSN checksum, but if you do state it, the police will have to pay you if the stop is longer than 10min.
So giving the police a little more than they’re entitled to, can get you out of the interaction a lot easier.
Of course you can stand up for your rights, and if you want to fight, then do it. But it will make your day harder.
“No ID found, this must be an illegal”
-ICE probably
lookit mr can’t-get-disappeared-by-ICE over here
Regardless of the law, you can be detained by law enforcement if you cannot prove who you say you are until you can prove it.
They’re detaining people with Real IDs for hours at a time. It likely makes no difference.
When they’ve got a cell full of detainees and they’re deciding who ICE is going to ship to “advanced processing” who do you think goes to the front of that line? I’m guessing it’s the “undocumented,” regardless of whatever laws you’re focused on.
Well also just the brown ones.
If law enforcement was following the law I would not be protesting.
Also bring an ID and some cash. E.g. to buy some snacks/meal/water if the day goes longer than you planned for.
And take a burner phone if you must absolutely bring one.
What’s wrong with a grapheneOS device on airplane mode? Is firmware level tracking a confirmed thing?
Stingray been in use widely since the 90s. LEOs have much better access and tech now. Pinpoint down to which room in a multi level hotel.
So it should be safe in airplane mode, no? If I can trust my device, that is.
deleted by creator
They may confiscate your phone and record all data on it.
If it’s a fresh wipe with a good passcode, and you keep it on airplane mode, you’re probably fine.
Set up a duress PIN on your graphene phone
Graphene is not a good OS for this type if work. Yes it’s secure, no good backup solutions. You will lose all your data upon confiscation. Graphene again is secure but if all your data is gone what good will it do? DO NOT TAKE YOUR PERSONAL DEVICES.
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